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What's Happening with the Coronavirus

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Re: What's Happening with the Coronavirus

#41
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China will likely not be able to contain the virus at this stage. it also could mutate and change it's behavior.

> could mutate and change it's behavior(sic) We could also get hit by an asteroid tomorrow and most life on Earth wiped out, guess that isn't newsworthy though. Hope people are worried about that danger, despite all the effort put in we routinely can't detect dangerous objects that come near Earth. Scary stuff. How many people have died outside China from this virus again? Is it zero? Last I looked it was zero human…

Your priors are a little misconfigured

Re: What's Happening with the Coronavirus

#42

So humble numbers of people infected outside China, why is the whole world panicking?

Because yesterday there was 60 deaths, a 20% jump over the previous day. At this rate, it'll become way more deadlier than the Flu in only a few days. Considering that around 700 persons world-wide die from the flu everyday and these deaths are happening mainly in Wuhan, this virus is certainly a very deadly one.

Re: What's Happening with the Coronavirus

#43

So humble numbers of people infected outside China, why is the whole world panicking?

Because of how outbreaks and pandemics normally progress. Essentially they run like a video game with horrible lag - you don't really see the results of what you do to contain them until one or more incubation periods for the disease have passed.

The first major action taken by the Chinese government was to quarantine Wuhan. Prior to that, people were traveling freely to other places for the lunar holiday. We're about to reach the end of the incubation period (by the 6th) for people who were infected prior to the quarantine being established.

That means if the quarantine of Wuhan contained the outbreak (it's looking less and less likely that it did) we should see some change in the rate of infection in China. That's going to be difficult because of the Chinese government.

The flip side of the incubation period ending is that after that point, all new cases should be from people traveling who infected other people. So far, almost all the people who are in quarantine world wide were physically in Wuhan.

We don't know yet how many people who have been infected by travelers there are because we haven't hit the end of the post-quarantine incubation period.

At present, there could be people all over the world who are infected, don't have symptoms or only mild symptoms, are contagious and spreading the disease, and who won't be discovered as carriers for another week.

This week is going to be telling... we may suddenly see a massive uptick in infected outside China (and outside quarantines elsewhere), and if we do it's likely that it's too late to contain the virus, all we can do is limit its spread somewhat and treat the infected.. world wide.

If it's really out of containment, given its apparent level of contagiousness it's likely that eventually a significant percentage of all humans alive right now will catch it, and that 2-3% of those people will die - quite possibly a lot more since the numbers of infected are going to overwhelm health care systems worldwide... too many people won't get treated even in western countries. In the third world, in places where people are packed together in slums and large cities, it'll be far worse.

For your consideration, if the virus only spreads through China and India, and if e.g. 20% of the people become infected, that means something like 13.6 million people could die, and the rest of us will be dealing with the impact to health care systems, reduced food production, lost wages, reduced military strength and attendant weaknesses in defense, and a host of other problems.

So... this virus is rather concerning, not because it kills lots of people (although it can) but because we likely can't control it, and even the number of people it will kill is far too many, and the rest of us are going to be dealing with the consequences for years.

Re: What's Happening with the Coronavirus

#44
post #9

So humble numbers of people infected outside China, why is the whole world panicking?

There were 6 cases in China 2 months ago now its closing to 20k. Maybe that's why. SARS killed approx 800 in span of 1.5 year. There are over 300 confirmed deaths from Corona roughly after 2 months. The numbers are growing quickly and I for one am starting to feel a bit uncomfortable about this. Edit: Its 360 deaths, that pretty much half od SARS now :/

This has already killed more people in mainland China than SARS has.

Re: What's Happening with the Coronavirus

#45
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China will likely not be able to contain the virus at this stage. it also could mutate and change it's behavior.

> could mutate and change it's behavior(sic) We could also get hit by an asteroid tomorrow and most life on Earth wiped out, guess that isn't newsworthy though. Hope people are worried about that danger, despite all the effort put in we routinely can't detect dangerous objects that come near Earth. Scary stuff. How many people have died outside China from this virus again? Is it zero? Last I looked it was zero human…

So you're saying that the people who die in China don't matter… no big deal, as long as it's not happening in my country.

Pandemics don't care about borders, anyways. There's a very high probability this will spread outside China even with all the drastic measures we've taken.

Re: What's Happening with the Coronavirus

#46
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why so small number of people get infected outside of China? I can hardly believe no case of infection could get unnoticed and not isolated successfully so far.

In my city (Lviv, Ukraine), number of viral pneumonia cases is jumped by 4x since Jan 26, but we have no test kits to confirm kind of virus they caused by. They can be caused by regular influenza, as usual, or they can be caused by corona. Nobody knows yet. :-/

That's very scary! Very unlikely to be a coincidence.

Re: What's Happening with the Coronavirus

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that these are only the confirmed deaths, which is a lower bound. We know that the true number is much larger.

Yes, but it is the same for total number infected. Outside estimates are that there are more than 100k infected. That would put the mortality rate ~= the flu.

Current estimates (based on official, massively undercounted figures) suggest that 2019-nCoV is both more infectious (higher R_0) and has a higher fatality rate. So not really, no. If your estimate is ~100k infected, don't assume that your number of deaths is the same either.

Consider also that fatality rate depends on demographic and access to healthcare. That second factor is highly dependent on how stressed the health service is. So if you're lucky enough to live somewhere with both high quality healthcare and low infection rate, then your chances of dying will be lower. Not everyone is so lucky. This is why measuring fatality rates outside of China can be misleading as an indicator of what the true fatality rate might be.

Re: What's Happening with the Coronavirus

#48

So humble numbers of people infected outside China, why is the whole world panicking?

Because 10 days ago the estimated # of cases was, while probably fudged lower by China, about 300. Now it's, as of this comment, about 17,000. If that number is underreported to the same magnitude, it's even more of a huge issue. Then consider that the symptoms mimic, at least for a time, cold/flu symptoms, and it's not hard to see how it could go undetected in an even larger group of people. Or not, but it's absolutely possible, hence the enormous scale of the reaction and precautions being taken. It's not panic, it's prudence. well, maybe it's also some level of panic, but I wouldn't say it's an over reaction. This is the sort of thing where I way more effort than actually required is a significant virtue as compared to even slightly less than required.

Re: What's Happening with the Coronavirus

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that these are only the confirmed deaths, which is a lower bound. We know that the true number is much larger.

Yes, but it is the same for total number infected. Outside estimates are that there are more than 100k infected. That would put the mortality rate ~= the flu.

That same outside estimate magnitude may apply to fatalities as well, meaning no change in death rate.

Re: What's Happening with the Coronavirus

#50
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why so small number of people get infected outside of China? I can hardly believe no case of infection could get unnoticed and not isolated successfully so far.

In my city (Lviv, Ukraine), number of viral pneumonia cases is jumped by 4x since Jan 26, but we have no test kits to confirm kind of virus they caused by. They can be caused by regular influenza, as usual, or they can be caused by corona. Nobody knows yet. :-/

Any link / proof ?
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