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University of Phoenix Enrollment Down by 42%

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Re: University of Phoenix Enrollment Down by 42%

#41

Post by jmm »

brudgers wrote: post #35
danielford wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open admissions and small courses can be found at a community college for a fraction of the price for-profits charge. My main concern about for-profits are reports from their adjuncts that they've been pressured to pass students who perform poorly. A lot of their students also lack basic reading and math skills because for-profits don't have the remediation requirements you would see at a community college. I'm all f…

> "My main concern about for-profits are reports from their adjuncts that they've been pressured to pass students who perform poorly." That is not the experience related by my spouse, and I would suspect that there is less pressure at Phoenix than at some large and well known institutions. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/14/sports/ncaafootball/14aubu...

Why keep talking about college athletics? Comparing U of Phx admissions/passing criteria to that of high level athletes at big schools is not exactly redeeming. Because everyone knows the idea of the scholar-athlete at major programs is a mostly a farce (which is not to say there aren't exceptions).

Addition: And if you're simply trying to knock non-profit higher ed from a pedestal, my point is that it's already been knocked. At the same time, there's a continuum of relaxed academic standards and capitalizing on certain types of enrollment, so U of Phx is not necessarily on equal standing simply because there are some concerning things happening at Big Football U.

Did you catch the law school article which was the #1 article for several days on nytimes.com this week? My thought is that with all of this, the education bubble needs to deflate some lest it burst.

Re: University of Phoenix Enrollment Down by 42%

#42

Post by ahi »

brudgers wrote: post #35
danielford wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open admissions and small courses can be found at a community college for a fraction of the price for-profits charge. My main concern about for-profits are reports from their adjuncts that they've been pressured to pass students who perform poorly. A lot of their students also lack basic reading and math skills because for-profits don't have the remediation requirements you would see at a community college. I'm all f…

> "My main concern about for-profits are reports from their adjuncts that they've been pressured to pass students who perform poorly." That is not the experience related by my spouse, and I would suspect that there is less pressure at Phoenix than at some large and well known institutions. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/14/sports/ncaafootball/14aubu...

Auburn is a bit of an outlier. It is sometimes referred to as a football program with a university attached. Auburn has faced NCAA sanctions half a dozen times in the past 20 years. My friends teach at U of Michigan and report their football players as being comparable to the rest of student population, at least during the Spring semester.

Re: University of Phoenix Enrollment Down by 42%

#43

Post by ataggart »

angstrom wrote: post #38
brudgers wrote: post #15

Disclosure: My spouse teaches online for Phoenix. Phoenix's success and also a source of criticism is due to its liberal admissions policy and therefore it accepts students who might not be considered fully prepared for college level courses by other institutions. People can legitimately come down on both sides of such an enrollment policy, on the one hand, it can be argued that it deprecates the value of a college d…

Has your spouse seen this video? If not please watch it. I would be curious if you could debunk/shed more light on some of the issues it raises: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/collegeinc/view/ My concern about for-profit education is that its interest is focused more on the investor and less on the student outcomes. Students are admitted fairly easily and loans from for-profit banks in addition to any federa…

>My concern about for-profit [services] is that its interest is focused more on the investor and less on the [customer].

Funny how elsewhere the profit motive aligns suppliers' actions to the demands of their extant and would-be customers, since to do otherwise would be to go out of business. Perhaps the issue here is that multiple levels of taxpayer subsidies yields a system of perverse incentives.

Re: University of Phoenix Enrollment Down by 42%

#44

Post by bane »

kls wrote: post #20
timurlenk wrote: post #8

While this doesn't speak for all its graduates I have met two of their products. One quite young, early thirties, one much older, early sixties. Both had the maturity and view on life of someone, well...who didn't go to university. Is a degree from university of Phoenix taken serious by employers?

I have a degree from UOP, I was a product of the .com boom in which it was foolish to stay in school, with all the money floating around. To that end, by the time it was all over, I was a career man with a family. Attending a traditional university was out of the question. With family responsibilities and a start-up that had taken off, UOP was really the only option. To be honest, I had low expectations going in, but…

I credit the UOP with providing me with the platform to have all of my awkward, uncomfortable and embarrassing moments on stage in a format that no one cared if you screwed up. For me becoming a public technical speaker was worth every penny, I ever paid to UOP.

For people that don't understand why degree programs (regardless of school) require communications & speaking classes, this is it. Public speaking has probably gotten me further along in my career than any other skill I learned in school.

Most people groan in their normal classes when they have to give a speech about their project, but I think it's invaluable. You can also see immediately the difference between a brilliant student who is otherwise a lousy speaker, and students who may be so-so in the subject but great speakers -- and think about the future prospects of both students. I'd be willing to guess that 9 times out of 10, the speaker gets into higher positions in their career and makes more money.

Re: University of Phoenix Enrollment Down by 42%

#45

Post by bane »

brudgers wrote: post #21
bane wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is a degree from university of Phoenix taken serious by employers? Not really. Typically a degree means "this person can start and finish a difficult, multi-year project" even if the school isn't top tier. However, the UoP degrees are of such limited rigor that they are more or less treated as a "certification of hobby" by HR departments -- particularly since it isn't an accredited school it's only one step up from a…

> "it isn't an accredited school" Phoenix is accredited by the Higher Learning Commission [ http://www.ncahlc.org/#ncahlc.org ] by which other schools in the region are accredited, e.g. University of Michigan. Specific Phoenix programs are also accredited by the usual suspects as well. [ http://www.phoenix.edu/about_us/accreditation.html ]

I stand happily corrected if this is true. Though I've heard numerous UoP grads complain they can't get their credits transferred to their school when they go back for an M.S./M.A.

(but I'm perfectly willing to accept that it could just be sour grapes for not being accepted to get in)

Re: University of Phoenix Enrollment Down by 42%

#46

Post by firemanx »

aonic wrote: post #10

What's a good & accredited online university for CS courses?

Regis out of CO - http://www.Regis.edu. Check out the college for professional studies. I'm currently doing a combined bachelors / masters in CS, all online. It's spend, but a decent education.

Re: University of Phoenix Enrollment Down by 42%

#47

Post by forensic »

angstrom wrote: post #38
brudgers wrote: post #15

Disclosure: My spouse teaches online for Phoenix. Phoenix's success and also a source of criticism is due to its liberal admissions policy and therefore it accepts students who might not be considered fully prepared for college level courses by other institutions. People can legitimately come down on both sides of such an enrollment policy, on the one hand, it can be argued that it deprecates the value of a college d…

Has your spouse seen this video? If not please watch it. I would be curious if you could debunk/shed more light on some of the issues it raises: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/collegeinc/view/ My concern about for-profit education is that its interest is focused more on the investor and less on the student outcomes. Students are admitted fairly easily and loans from for-profit banks in addition to any federa…

Why would a for-profit business not serve its customers?

Your criticism applies to public schools far more strongly than it does to private schools.

Public schools focus on pleasing their investor - the government - at the expense of their "customer" the student.

Re: University of Phoenix Enrollment Down by 42%

#48

Post by forensic »

brudgers wrote: post #23
bane wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't one say that poor performing students at UoP is a sign that the school's grading and student evaluation is fair (i.e. the system is working) as opposed to rampant grade inflation seen elsewhere?

My spouse teaches there, I don't really know what the grade distribution is. However, my understanding is that poor academic performance by Phoenix students is often a function of background and immediate circumstances.

So.. poor performance is due to the same reasons that poor performance is usually do to.

Why is it wrong that Univ of Pheonix is giving these students a chance?

Re: University of Phoenix Enrollment Down by 42%

#49

Post by kls »

bane wrote: post #45
brudgers wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "it isn't an accredited school" Phoenix is accredited by the Higher Learning Commission [ http://www.ncahlc.org/#ncahlc.org ] by which other schools in the region are accredited, e.g. University of Michigan. Specific Phoenix programs are also accredited by the usual suspects as well. [ http://www.phoenix.edu/about_us/accreditation.html ]

I stand happily corrected if this is true. Though I've heard numerous UoP grads complain they can't get their credits transferred to their school when they go back for an M.S./M.A. (but I'm perfectly willing to accept that it could just be sour grapes for not being accepted to get in)

While it is true that you credits will get sliced and diced if you transfer (this is somewhat true of any transfer, but more so with UOP), they are accredited and if you complete you degree at UOP you can go on to be considered for a Masters program at any regionally accredited school. Most state schools and many private collage are regionally accredited. So if one plans to bank a bunch of credits at UOP and then transfer to get a "better" degree they should reevaluate their plan. If ones plan is to Bachelor at UOP and then Master at another school, then so long as their GPA and GRE/LSAT/WHATEVER is up to par, they should have no issue with accreditation.
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