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Greta Thunberg: 'How dare you? You have stolen my dreams and my childhood'

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Re: Greta Thunberg: 'How dare you? You have stolen my dreams and my childhood'

#41

Post by lazyjones »

qnsi wrote: post #29
lazyjones wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They've been wildly successful at breaking the Paris agreement? Would you kindly elaborate on that, what exactly did "they" break? Can you point me to some TV interviews or documentaries on MSM showing their superior influence compared to "climate change activists"?

For example EU not implementing carbon tax in the 90s because of the lobbyists

Do you have a source for this ("because of the lobbyists") except the Wikipedia page, which links/refers to an article that doesn't seem to address the claim? (http://www.oecd.org/unitedkingdom/34512257.pdf)

FWIW, pretty much everything in the EU is dictated by lobbyists: https://transparency.eu/lobbyistsinbrussels/

Re: Greta Thunberg: 'How dare you? You have stolen my dreams and my childhood'

#42

Post by Miner49er »

sunseb wrote: post #15

Just a quick question: why Greta is not talking about world overpopulation? I think it's a huge problem. The more we are on this planet, the more mess we make. And by the way, it's too easy to shame western countries to be the root of all evil in this world.

It's certainly possible to keep population growing at the rate it is and still end global warming.

Is it harder? Sure. But it's possible. More people is more labor to fix things. The labor just needs to be used correctly, and consumption needs to be reduced and changed.

Talking about overpopulation and "shaming Western countries" sounds a bit like a Trojan horse for some racist policies, considering that population is growing the most in non-western countries.

Re: Greta Thunberg: 'How dare you? You have stolen my dreams and my childhood'

#43

Post by AlexandrB »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #32
qnsi wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you believe mass migration from whole world to Canada Russia Greenland and Antarctica would work out without war?

Well it's not going to happen in our lifetime (half those places are still covered in ice), and if it does happen, will do so gradually, and based on the world becoming more and more peaceful over the centuries I believe yes, it probably can happen without war. A couple centuries ago there were wars all over Europe, Asia, Africa, in the US alone the Revolutionary war and Civil war, wars with the Spanish, natives, etc…

To paraphrase: "This is going to happen a long time from now, so it's not my problem and I'm sure humanity will have fundamentally changed by then."

This is outright utopianism. Look around you. The backlash to even modest immigration has become increasingly violent and reactionary (see: Brexit, Trump). Do you honestly think that at some point everyone will be OK with just opening their borders to billions of people? And how many do you think will die trying to make that journey?

Re: Greta Thunberg: 'How dare you? You have stolen my dreams and my childhood'

#44

Post by AlexandrB »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #39
IshKebab wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I'm sure Canada will welcome a billion people moving from India without any issues.

India isn't going to be uninhabitable tomorrow. They're not even on the equator. It's doubtful it'll ever be uninhabitable and if it does happen, it won't be overnight nor within this century.

The news seems to disagree: https://www.clickorlando.com/news/international/are-parts-of...

Re: Greta Thunberg: 'How dare you? You have stolen my dreams and my childhood'

#45

Post by Hamuko »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #39
IshKebab wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I'm sure Canada will welcome a billion people moving from India without any issues.

India isn't going to be uninhabitable tomorrow. They're not even on the equator. It's doubtful it'll ever be uninhabitable and if it does happen, it won't be overnight nor within this century.

I'm not going to retire tomorrow, but I do have a retirement fund.

Re: Greta Thunberg: 'How dare you? You have stolen my dreams and my childhood'

#46

Post by Mikeb85 »

AlexandrB wrote: post #43
Mikeb85 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it's not going to happen in our lifetime (half those places are still covered in ice), and if it does happen, will do so gradually, and based on the world becoming more and more peaceful over the centuries I believe yes, it probably can happen without war. A couple centuries ago there were wars all over Europe, Asia, Africa, in the US alone the Revolutionary war and Civil war, wars with the Spanish, natives, etc…

To paraphrase: "This is going to happen a long time from now, so it's not my problem and I'm sure humanity will have fundamentally changed by then ." This is outright utopianism. Look around you. The backlash to even modest immigration has become increasingly violent and reactionary (see: Brexit, Trump). Do you honestly think that at some point everyone will be OK with just opening their borders to billions of people…

200 years ago slavery was still rampant, war was everywhere, and the vast majority of people were serfs/peasants under the yoke of various tyrants/monarchs. We didn't have electricity, motorised vehicles, etc...

Given everything that's happened since, forgive me for being optimistic about our future.

Re: Greta Thunberg: 'How dare you? You have stolen my dreams and my childhood'

#47

Post by [deleted] »

Hamuko wrote: post #34
Tepix wrote: post #2

I had the same reaction when the German government revealed their insufficient measures as part of the "Klimapaket" (climate pact) last Friday. Scientists are recommending a tax of 180€ per ton of CO2 to achieve the necessary reduction in emissions. The German coalition government decides to introduce a 10€ CO2 tax. How dare they ?

How do you prevent populists from gaining power and reducing it to 0€?

[deleted]

Re: Greta Thunberg: 'How dare you? You have stolen my dreams and my childhood'

#48

Post by lazyjones »

Hamuko wrote: post #34
Tepix wrote: post #2

I had the same reaction when the German government revealed their insufficient measures as part of the "Klimapaket" (climate pact) last Friday. Scientists are recommending a tax of 180€ per ton of CO2 to achieve the necessary reduction in emissions. The German coalition government decides to introduce a 10€ CO2 tax. How dare they ?

How do you prevent populists from gaining power and reducing it to 0€?

By turning the EU into a dictatorship like the Soviet Union.

Personally, I don't care about carbon taxes (I drive a Tesla, too). The poor people on the other hand, will have to suffer even more apparently. They are the main beneficiaries of cheap energy/pollution, since they buy a lot of stuff that's only cheap because it comes from countries like China and India and taxes on fossil fuels and meat will hit them hardest.

Re: Greta Thunberg: 'How dare you? You have stolen my dreams and my childhood'

#49

Post by hashberry »

sunseb wrote: post #15

Just a quick question: why Greta is not talking about world overpopulation? I think it's a huge problem. The more we are on this planet, the more mess we make. And by the way, it's too easy to shame western countries to be the root of all evil in this world.

"How dare you have more than two children?" It's easier to blame capitalism and lecture to politicians instead of poor third-world families.

Re: Greta Thunberg: 'How dare you? You have stolen my dreams and my childhood'

#50

Post by einpoklum »

Hamuko wrote: post #34
Tepix wrote: post #2

I had the same reaction when the German government revealed their insufficient measures as part of the "Klimapaket" (climate pact) last Friday. Scientists are recommending a tax of 180€ per ton of CO2 to achieve the necessary reduction in emissions. The German coalition government decides to introduce a 10€ CO2 tax. How dare they ?

How do you prevent populists from gaining power and reducing it to 0€?

You campaign incessantly to increase public awareness of the climate crisis, so that a populist politician will have as much to gain from acting to curtail emissions than from reducing taxes.

Also, instead of taxation - which is more more easily fungible - you aim for the phasing-out/banning of industrial processes which are overly polluting. With that, there's less of an immediate gain from careless de-regulation.

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