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Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

swissinfo.ch

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Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#41

Post by Scoundreller »

colechristensen wrote: post #37
Scoundreller wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One of the basic benefits is always being able to return to the US. Being inside American borders is very much safer than being anywhere else if/when the next major global military issue arises. It’s a funny fear, because today, being in the US vs. some other developed country takes about 7-8 years off your life. Meanwhile, those developed countries with functioning health care systems that you can return to whenev…

>It’s a funny fear, because today, being in the US vs. some other developed country takes about 7-8 years off your life. Does it actually? I assume that disparity is more to do with the populations of impoverished people around this very diverse country that can't compare to smaller European countries that just don't have those populations. There is no Mississippi in Germany, those populations are in other countries.…

> The US has the best health care in the world if you can afford it

But you don’t need a US passport to access that, just a decent one.

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#42

Post by Scoundreller »

gruez wrote: post #36
Scoundreller wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One of the basic benefits is always being able to return to the US. Being inside American borders is very much safer than being anywhere else if/when the next major global military issue arises. It’s a funny fear, because today, being in the US vs. some other developed country takes about 7-8 years off your life. Meanwhile, those developed countries with functioning health care systems that you can return to whenev…

>It’s a funny fear, because today, being in the US vs. some other developed country takes about 7-8 years off your life. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expe... When accounting for all sexes, US sits at 79.3 years and the top country sits at 83.7 years. Where is this "7-8 years" coming from?

> Where is this "7-8 years" coming from?

My poor recall.

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#43

Post by maehwasu »

nradov wrote: post #18
dbrgn wrote: post #9

To me as a Swiss citizen, born in Switzerland, living in Switzerland, it's an impertinence that every time I open a bank account with a Swiss bank I have to fill out at least 1 form with information about my relation to the US, about my travels in the US and whether I might have to pay taxes there. As a side note, the only other country besides the US that collects taxes based on citizenship and not based on residenc…

Swiss banks are in that position today because some of them engaged in criminal conspiracies to help US customers commit tax fraud. If they want to participate in the US financial system then they have to play by US rules. US citizens residing in other countries can still receive some services and protection from the US federal government. So it's completely fair to tax them for that. We can argue about the value of…

Most countries do the far more reasonable procedure of having you give up ties and get another residency, rather than fully renounce.

Getting a second passport is extremely costly in terms of time or money, and your “free to pay an administrative fee and renounce” comment indicates that you don’t understand this at all.

Source: went through the process of acquiring a second passport for the purpose of renouncing.

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#44

Post by nradov »

Scoundreller wrote: post #32
colechristensen wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For starters the first $103,900 is tax free if you qualify and are living abroad. What it comes down to is that because of its size and economic power there is an enormous incentive for wealthy people who earn their income (in an actual sense, not a tax law menagerie sense) in the US to try to avoid US taxes by living abroad and moving assets, their "home", etc outside of US jurisdiction while still in reality earnin…

> One of the basic benefits is always being able to return to the US. Being inside American borders is very much safer than being anywhere else if/when the next major global military issue arises. It’s a funny fear, because today, being in the US vs. some other developed country takes about 7-8 years off your life. Meanwhile, those developed countries with functioning health care systems that you can return to whenev…

The factors which shorten average lifespans for Americans by a few years relative to some other developed countries are almost entirely lifestyle issues. They aren't actually caused by geographic location or government problems.

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#45

Post by nradov »

AceJohnny2 wrote: post #40
nradov wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swiss banks are in that position today because some of them engaged in criminal conspiracies to help US customers commit tax fraud. If they want to participate in the US financial system then they have to play by US rules. US citizens residing in other countries can still receive some services and protection from the US federal government. So it's completely fair to tax them for that. We can argue about the value of…

> We can argue about the value of those services but clearly it's >0. From personal experience, I can tell you that (value of expatriate services) - (cost of dealing with US tax system) is a very deep negative value.

I assume you've never been in a foreign country when it fell apart and the US government had to evacuate their citizens. Some other expatriates weren't so lucky.

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#46

Post by colechristensen »

captainpiggies wrote: post #39
colechristensen wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swiss banks were doing business in the US, setting up offices in the US, and literally counseling American clients on how to export their assets. These were Americans living in America doing business with Swiss banks on American soil in order to avoid taxes. Several banks have been stomped on for this behavior, the "oldest bank in the world" closed as a result and there have been many other actions. If you don't want…

Correlation =/= Causation There are way bigger fish for the US to fry other than Switzerland. FATCA wasn’t created because of Swiss banks. Claiming otherwise is ignorant.

There are but the prosecutors went for the biggest win, not the biggest target.

Making cases is hard because these things are very convoluted.

Swiss banks, however, were doing things which were really obviously illegal and their brazen tax avoidance made them a good target for prosecutors. Other targets are honestly just better at avoiding the law and will be harder to get to. Progress is being made though.

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#47

Post by paulsutter »

ekianjo wrote: post #15
dbrgn wrote: post #9

To me as a Swiss citizen, born in Switzerland, living in Switzerland, it's an impertinence that every time I open a bank account with a Swiss bank I have to fill out at least 1 form with information about my relation to the US, about my travels in the US and whether I might have to pay taxes there. As a side note, the only other country besides the US that collects taxes based on citizenship and not based on residenc…

> US that collects taxes based on citizenship and not based on residence is Eritrea I believe Japan also does that, for a few years now.

No Japan does not tax Japanese citizens with foreign residency. They did start an exit tax for departing Japan residents to discourage this.

Japanese tax residency has a slippery legal definition, tax residency begins the day after you enter the country “for a purpose exceeding one year” (as determined by the tax authorities not you). So they do often challenge foreign residency claims.

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#48

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg »

pjc50 wrote: post #2

This is not something that Switzerland was happy to do; it took a lot of pressure to get them to stop being an asset haven for international tax avoiders.

Minor technicality, but tax avoidance is legal. Saving in a tax-advantaged account is tax avoidance. The problem with what Switzerland was doing is that it was aiding and abetting tax evasion.

Most of the time people get this wrong the other way. I've never seen the evasion->avoidance transposition. So, I thought I might share. No harm meant. :)

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#49

Post by AceJohnny2 »

nradov wrote: post #45
AceJohnny2 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We can argue about the value of those services but clearly it's >0. From personal experience, I can tell you that (value of expatriate services) - (cost of dealing with US tax system) is a very deep negative value.

I assume you've never been in a foreign country when it fell apart and the US government had to evacuate their citizens. Some other expatriates weren't so lucky.

I have, actually (Kenya). I'm also lucky enough to hold the passport of another developed country that helps its expatriates and doesn't have a regressive expatriate tax system, so I can compare.

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#50

Post by MR4D »

Scoundreller wrote: post #33
kube-system wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most obvious is something like state department emergency assistance, but there's plenty of US government programs without a residency requirement. For example: federal student aid doesn't require US residency. https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/types/international Also, the taxes that the US imposes on citizens overseas has some pretty significant exceptions. US citizens can deduct over $100,000 worth of their foreign…

That’s part of the mess: the US tax system isn’t the same as others’, so you now have to optimize for 2 systems. Differing rules of what’s a short-term vs long term capital gain. E.g.: Canada doesn’t tax capital gains on your Primary residence when you sell it, but US does. And buying a non-US ETF can create another tax mess since you’ve now bought into a multibillion dollar trust that doesn’t file with the US gov. T…

The us does not tax capital gains on your primary residence unless you lived in it for less than 2 years.

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/06/capitalgainhomes...

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