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How a deadly fall revealed CIA secrets

theguardian.com

41–50 of 99 posts

Re: How a deadly fall revealed CIA secrets

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MKUltra was the US program that expounded on the research done by the Germans, Japanese, and Soviets (sometimes only programs we thought they were working on and started counter-programs which then spurred the creation of counter-counter-programs...) My take is that by about the late 80's, early 90's, they had finished most of the research and transitioned into implementation at mass scale, both domestically and inte…

Yeah, why not. These programs, to me, are all about defusing populations. Keep em busy smoking and getting stoned. Maybe so.

or for plausible deniability: if LSD is kept illegal (to insure the majority doesn't use it, and doesn't sympathize with those who do), while kept available (to insure there will be enough people who use it recreationally), then the large but relatively smaller latter group can be used to draw test subjects from, and if things go sideways, you have a documented history of voluntary drug abuse events of an individual to point to in order to obscure the involuntary drug experimentation event that went sideways.

Re: How a deadly fall revealed CIA secrets

#42
post #25

Yes another great read, for the land of the free and brave.

In one hand, of course all those story fragments are alarming and revolting. On the other hand, each time such a thing surfaces the most surprising is always that it seems to have surfaced due to this automatic declassification mechanism that I've never heard of an equivalent anywhere else in the world. In most places, including many modern and wealthy democracies, I believe you would just expose yourself to troubles…

could you point me to how this story was exposed through declassification?

Re: How a deadly fall revealed CIA secrets

#43
"He was one of several special operations division scientists who were in France on 16 August 1951, when an entire French village, Pont-Saint-Esprit, was mysteriously seized by mass hysteria and violent delirium"

Big if true. The book doesn't come out till October. I wonder if this is the only circumstantial evidence they have? If they can place him in the actual village, that would be something.

Re: How a deadly fall revealed CIA secrets

#44

>Because Olson’s survivors had signed away their right to legal relief when they accepted their $750,000 compensation payment in 1975, they could not sue the CIA. can someone clarify how this works? how does signing away a right work? isn't it just a contract? am I correct that people in such a situation could in theory still seek legal relief, but that in doing so they "merely" violate this "contract"?

It's referred to earlier as a settlement. It's a form of pre-trial relief when both sides agree that this settles the matter and brings litigation to an end. It's not a contract per se, and to seek legal relief again, you would have to find new grounds - you have effectively used your legal relief. It's the usual end for lawsuits.

[deleted]

Re: How a deadly fall revealed CIA secrets

#45

>Because Olson’s survivors had signed away their right to legal relief when they accepted their $750,000 compensation payment in 1975, they could not sue the CIA. can someone clarify how this works? how does signing away a right work? isn't it just a contract? am I correct that people in such a situation could in theory still seek legal relief, but that in doing so they "merely" violate this "contract"?

I assume there was a quite broad release clause in the paperwork - not uncommon for settlements. If the other party refrained from offering assurances it might be hard to make an argument they weren't acting in good faith. On the other hand, it shouldn't preclude a criminal investigation. I can only assume the evidence was too circumstantial or trail too stale to gain traction from investigators.

This is a really disconcerting story for a population that tends to assume we're the good guys.

Re: How a deadly fall revealed CIA secrets

#46

Two other LSD targets of the CIA's program weren't mentioned in this excerpt. You've probably heard of them: Ted Kaczynski Charles Manson It is possible that neither would have committed their crimes but for their involvement in the CIA's mind experimentation programs. See, O'Neill, Chaos: Charles Manson, the CIA and the Secret History of the Sixties (2019).

Interesting that psychedelics are being pushed by elites via popular media like Joe Rogan, etc.

It's unclear if Kaczynski received any psychedelics. What we know is that he faced hundreds of hours of intense personal abuse including belittling his hopes for the future. Nobody is pushing that.

I haven't heard Manson's story on the issue, but he would have already spent a decade incarcerated before they did anything.

Re: How a deadly fall revealed CIA secrets

#47
post #14

Two other LSD targets of the CIA's program weren't mentioned in this excerpt. You've probably heard of them: Ted Kaczynski Charles Manson It is possible that neither would have committed their crimes but for their involvement in the CIA's mind experimentation programs. See, O'Neill, Chaos: Charles Manson, the CIA and the Secret History of the Sixties (2019).

Kinda makes you think about all the shooters "known to federal authorities" recently.

speaking about famous shooters, the MKULTRA doctors just happened to be around:

https://www.muckrock.com/news/archives/2017/dec/19/mkruby/

"After he shot Lee Harvey Oswald, Jack Ruby’s psychosis was diagnosed by the same CIA doctor who had once killed an elephant with psychedelics"

The same doctor happened to be around in the context of Charles Manson too :

https://longreads.com/2019/06/27/a-manson-murder-investigati...

"I could show that he was working out of the [Haight-Ashbury Free] clinic recruiting subjects for his research at the same time Manson was bringing the women in to see his parole officer there, but I was trying to get them in the same room. I felt like everything that Manson did with his women was exactly what the CIA was trying to do with people without their knowledge, in the exact same time, at the exact same place.

West had a history of doing research in inducing insanity without a person’s awareness. He reported that he had learned how to replace true memories with false ones. And he saw Jack Ruby [who shot JFK’s killer, Lee Harvey Oswald, in 1963] within the 24 hours that Ruby became insane."

Re: How a deadly fall revealed CIA secrets

#48
post #47
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kinda makes you think about all the shooters "known to federal authorities" recently.

speaking about famous shooters, the MKULTRA doctors just happened to be around: https://www.muckrock.com/news/archives/2017/dec/19/mkruby/ "After he shot Lee Harvey Oswald, Jack Ruby’s psychosis was diagnosed by the same CIA doctor who had once killed an elephant with psychedelics" The same doctor happened to be around in the context of Charles Manson too : https://longreads.com/2019/06/27/a-manson-murder-investigati…

That same CIA doctor went on to perform a necropsy on the elephant /while/ on LSD.

Re: How a deadly fall revealed CIA secrets

#49
post #33
post #22

Interesting how the article turns a story of mass torture and killings akin to nazy mad-science into a story about one individual murder. Makes one wonder why would a state research mind control from drugs, when mind control from history books and newspapers is already so efficient.

Maybe mind control from history books or whatever is not as efficient as you're thinking it is? Just speculating that if I was a military commander, yeah, I'd go for saturating a place with drugs to keep the people there from planting IED's way before I would trust history books to do so. Just strikes me as way more reliable. If history is any indication, using history books to get people to behave decently doesn't s…

Especially unreliable if you want people to do horrible things. Drugs may help you more then than books.

Re: How a deadly fall revealed CIA secrets

#50
post #36

I was honestly quite shocked whilst reading this, CIA operated facilities use to kill and test chemical weapons on volunteer soldiers? damn.

I am pretty sure that facility where he witnessed a sarin attack on a soldier was a UK facility. "Microbiological Research Establishment at Porton Down in Wiltshire"
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