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Why what we think we know about schizophrenia is wrong

theguardian.com

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Re: Why what we think we know about schizophrenia is wrong

#41

Post by ordu »

yosys wrote: post #39
ordu wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a book "A Road Back from Schizophrenia: A Memoir"[1]. Arnhild Lauveng came back from schizophrenia, got a degree in psychology and wrote the book, describing how it feels to have a schizophrenia. She describes doctors too. A bad ones and also those, who helped her to get back from schizophrenia. I believe you would like that book, her experiences are like yours. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Road-Back-Schizophr…

No, the experience was meaningless like life and nothing more than torture. I believe the field will die slowly and my life was worthless. I plan to act on suicide in the near future because of the torture.

The meaning of your experiences is what you make from it. It is the reason why I suggest you reading this book. A similar experience through different eyes. A psychologist probably might say about a therapeutic effect of this, but I'm not a consulting psychologist, so I rather say in a technical terms: it is hard to find meaning having just one point of data. You need at least two to draw a line.

By the way, did he disliked you because of your desire to be a woman, or for some other reason?

> I plan to act on suicide in the near future because of the torture.

It makes hard to me to speak with you. It feels like a minefield, one wrong step, one wrong word and I became a cause of someone's death.

I'll try to ignore that. Why are you suffering now? If I understood you right, torture ended at least a few years ago. Some kind of "flashbacks"?

Re: Why what we think we know about schizophrenia is wrong

#42

Post by coleifer »

asveikau wrote: post #12
coleifer wrote: post #8

My youngest brother has schizophrenia, which started when he was 19. He just turned 31, and were it not for his family supporting and caring for him, I'm sure he would be homeless or worse. He's one of the most sensitive, gentle people I have ever known. My wife and others who have gotten to know him would agree. Although he's "stable", thanks to an injection every 3 weeks, he's not going to ever get better. In fact…

It might be he doesn't want to associate with people, groups, events that revolve around the diagnosis. Perhaps that labels him an "other" and it feels little much. Why not similar activities with the general population? That is not meant to belittle the point that delusional people will strongly deny their symptoms, of course. Being close to somebody like that gets tough, especially when the delusions have led to ha…

Extreme agoraphobia, social anxiety, very little to talk about... Most 31 year olds are working, raising children, etc., and don't live in their parents house. Don't underestimate the shame he feels when around others. Outside his family, I think it is overwhelming for him.

Re: Why what we think we know about schizophrenia is wrong

#43

Post by coleifer »

DanBC wrote: post #34
asveikau wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be he doesn't want to associate with people, groups, events that revolve around the diagnosis. Perhaps that labels him an "other" and it feels little much. Why not similar activities with the general population? That is not meant to belittle the point that delusional people will strongly deny their symptoms, of course. Being close to somebody like that gets tough, especially when the delusions have led to ha…

> Why not similar activities with the general population? This is something that has been recommended for many years. Rahter than day centres where mentally ill people can go, secluded away from the world, we should provide a wider range. Still have those day centres for the people who need it, but focus on helping people reintegrate with their local communities by using "mainstream" services. Here's a pdf from 2006,…

This type of belief is exactly what I was referring to when I said that one of the main features of his illness is that it resists anything that we would consider rehabilitating. Attitudes like this add to the sense of shame: "why don't you get out more and try to be normal like us. Everyone thinks it's a good idea for you." Makes me sick.

Re: Why what we think we know about schizophrenia is wrong

#44

Post by asveikau »

coleifer wrote: post #43
DanBC wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why not similar activities with the general population? This is something that has been recommended for many years. Rahter than day centres where mentally ill people can go, secluded away from the world, we should provide a wider range. Still have those day centres for the people who need it, but focus on helping people reintegrate with their local communities by using "mainstream" services. Here's a pdf from 2006,…

This type of belief is exactly what I was referring to when I said that one of the main features of his illness is that it resists anything that we would consider rehabilitating. Attitudes like this add to the sense of shame: "why don't you get out more and try to be normal like us. Everyone thinks it's a good idea for you." Makes me sick.

But it's also true. It's helpful for all people of varying states of mental health, whether you start out with a psychotic disorder or not. We all need and desire social support.

So it becomes this sort of jedi trick of encouraging those things without being pushy. I don't always know how to pull that off.

Re: Why what we think we know about schizophrenia is wrong

#45

Post by pygy_ »

PaulHoule wrote: post #24
pygy_ wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We know a lot. Yet we know very little, like, we knew how to make fire before Lavoiser discovered the role of Oxygen in combustion. The various paradigms we use are approximate, not unlike humor and miasma theories were of some help before we understood physiology and discovered the existence of germs. The main theories of the 20th century (psychoanalysis and chemical imbalance) have been steadily eroded by researc…

On some level. There is a lot of social complexity that means we may not take advantage of those facts. For instance we might get better drugs and other treatments but will that really help the people who are crapping on the street in San Francisco? Autism in particular challenges the assumptions of society. The one thing aspies really can't do is "see the emperor's clothes". In asperger's day they did not get along…

The social aspects are also off course crucial. I'm lucky enough to live in a country with a social safety net that's stronger than what you have in the US (there are still homeless folks, but psychiatric care is free in France). Still, I'm well aware that mental care is a luxury.

Psychoanalysis is still very potent here though. The mothers of autistic and schizophrenic people were, for decades, vilified as responsible for the problems of their children.

A friend of mine who was anorexic for years had to endure cruel and demeaning treatments (based on Freudian BS). As she said: "As if it were funny to lose all those kilos :-/".

It's recently been found that, at least in some cases, anorexia is the result of auto-antibodies that stimulate the melanocortin receptor in the brain (the main satiety hormone). Those antibodies occur due to a cross-reaction with a protein secreted by E. Coli (CLPB). Bulimia and binge eating can have the same pathophysiology (where the antibodies block the receptor instead of activating it). Yet my friend was treated as if she was making it up, "to ultimately affirm herself".

Re: Why what we think we know about schizophrenia is wrong

#46

Post by DanBC »

coleifer wrote: post #43
DanBC wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why not similar activities with the general population? This is something that has been recommended for many years. Rahter than day centres where mentally ill people can go, secluded away from the world, we should provide a wider range. Still have those day centres for the people who need it, but focus on helping people reintegrate with their local communities by using "mainstream" services. Here's a pdf from 2006,…

This type of belief is exactly what I was referring to when I said that one of the main features of his illness is that it resists anything that we would consider rehabilitating. Attitudes like this add to the sense of shame: "why don't you get out more and try to be normal like us. Everyone thinks it's a good idea for you." Makes me sick.

Ann doesn't want to join a creative writing group for mentally ill people, she wants to join a creative writing group.

Bob doesn't want a work-like scheme for mentally ill people, he wants to keep his current job and wants advice about disclosing mental illness to his employer and asking for reasonable adjustments.

These are the things that me and my friends have been campaigning for for all these years- a socially inclusive recovery model.

Re: Why what we think we know about schizophrenia is wrong

#47

Post by JamesBarney »

codingslave wrote: post #29
asveikau wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hes a real person, not a schizophrenic. Schizophrenics are real people first of all. Congrats to your brother. I have heard it's possible for psychotic episodes to be a one-time thing and not recur. I have also seen people not get better. The whole thing is tough. It can be legit to get off the medications, but some people will need it for life. So how do you tell which situation you or a loved one is in?

Sorry, real person was harsh language, but in the depths of psychosis, it sometimes seems like the old person is no longer there. I was just trying to emphasize that the diagnosis is never final, even after doctors have concluded it to be. In our case we never gave up. I think that the antipsychotic drugs make recovery extremely difficult, which is where alot of patients get trapped. The withdrawl symptoms themselves…

Just to tell another possible path schizophrenia can take. When my mother went off her meds she got significantly worse very quickly and would never quite recover to where she was before hand. But even while medicated she would still get worse each year. In her teens she scored a near perfect SAT(1560) but by the time she was 23 she was no longer able to hold down a job and by her early 30s she could barely string a sentence together that made any sense.

Re: Why what we think we know about schizophrenia is wrong

#48

Post by JamesBarney »

pygy_ wrote: post #15

Treating DSM categories as if they were a single disease is completely misguided. The DSM describes syndromes, and ignores pathophysiology because we still have little to no idea of what happens in the brain (at least not enough to properly understand the relevant functional aspects). Genome-wide association studies have recently shown that schizophrenia was in fact several distinct diseases [0]. Their symptoms turn…

That paper looks interesting but also seems very preliminary.

Re: Why what we think we know about schizophrenia is wrong

#50

Post by JamesBarney »

isnetea wrote: post #36

I’ve often wondered if it’s possible to induce psychosis and symptoms of schizophrenia in a subject via environmental conditioning. This seems practical to test these days, given the expanse of information possessed by large tech companies, and their lack of regulation. Perhaps this would be related research for a larger automated behavior control initiative. Does anyone have any pertinent references or info?

Mind elaborating on the connection between psychosis and automated behavior control.
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