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A Kingdom from Dust (2018)

story.californiasunday.com

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Re: A Kingdom from Dust (2018)

#41

Post by sidibe »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #25
Scramblejams wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the article is correct that water will become more valuable than oil, then of course you're gonna ship that water to California. The economics will mandate it. Now whether the article is correct about that prediction is another question. It's an understatement to say I'm skeptical. Desalination plants produce expensive water, but not that expensive...

People will start growing crops in more sensible places.

Central valley would still be more sensible than the rest of the USA even with more expensive water. There is a reason so much is grown there despite lack of water. So much less to worry about with good soil, temperatures, less pests, less disease. In fact the last two are partly because of the lack of water.

Re: A Kingdom from Dust (2018)

#42

Post by m0zg »

jaggederest wrote: post #29
m0zg wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this irrigation water ground water though? That'd be pretty uncommon, no? Usually irrigation comes from nearby rivers. Again, I'm not at all an expert at this, just trying to understand the facts without the bias this article shows.

I don't think the derogatory slang was necessary here. Your sentence could have omitted it and been perfectly clear.

I've removed the slang, thanks for pushing back.

Re: A Kingdom from Dust (2018)

#43

Post by m0zg »

function_seven wrote: post #28
m0zg wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this irrigation water ground water though? That'd be pretty uncommon, no? Usually irrigation comes from nearby rivers. Again, I'm not at all an expert at this, just trying to understand the facts without the bias this article shows.

It absolutely is. That's how water rights in this state work. You own the land, you can tap the aquifer to your heart's content. If you're poor and can't afford to chase the water table down, then you no longer get water. The ground is subsiding due to this[1] See East Porterville[2] as an example [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Valley_land_subsidence [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porterville,_Californi…

Thanks for the links, I got a much better understanding of the situation now. Now I don't get why this is allowed to continue.

Re: A Kingdom from Dust (2018)

#44

Post by BurningFrog »

hourislate wrote: post #5

California is a special place. No where else in the USA/Canada do you have such a wonderful climate where you can have so many growing seasons (6?). It is the Bread Basket of NA. It would be worth helping find a solution to provide this area of the country with water.

California has plenty of water.

It has a terribly wasteful system for distributing and paying for it.

Re: A Kingdom from Dust (2018)

#45

Post by BurningFrog »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #25
Scramblejams wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the article is correct that water will become more valuable than oil, then of course you're gonna ship that water to California. The economics will mandate it. Now whether the article is correct about that prediction is another question. It's an understatement to say I'm skeptical. Desalination plants produce expensive water, but not that expensive...

People will start growing crops in more sensible places.

Or people will have the city of LA in a more sensible region.

Re: A Kingdom from Dust (2018)

#46

Post by diminoten »

m0zg wrote: post #34
colechristensen wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind that the reason it is being done is for appearances and popularity, not the actual underlying issue. Most of the things you hear politicians talking about they don't care about beyond how the issue -- and what they say about it -- effects their power and electability.

That's a cynical view to take, so no, I won't "keep in mind". There's nothing wrong about popularity. So far he's doing all right on the jobs front.

Cynical or not, it's more true than false. You can't just believe things you like...

Re: A Kingdom from Dust (2018)

#47

Post by freehunter »

m0zg wrote: post #34
colechristensen wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind that the reason it is being done is for appearances and popularity, not the actual underlying issue. Most of the things you hear politicians talking about they don't care about beyond how the issue -- and what they say about it -- effects their power and electability.

That's a cynical view to take, so no, I won't "keep in mind". There's nothing wrong about popularity. So far he's doing all right on the jobs front.

Yeah he's doing alright on the jobs front by hiring undocumented workers for his own companies at the same time he's sending ICE to rip them out of other companies.

Re: A Kingdom from Dust (2018)

#48

Post by m0zg »

whyisthewhat wrote: post #38
m0zg wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except, of course, Trump is trying to get them to hire workers who are not powerless, and can legally demand the minimum wage and protection under US law at least.

His policies are designed to selectively terrorize migrant labor and make it impossible for them to have recourse to the state. This keeps wages low because no private businesses are seriously penalized for employing migrant labor, but the laborers themselves are at risk of being brutalized by the immigration authorities if they attempt to seek redress for unfair treatment by their employers. The way to actually reso…

It's not "migrant" labor. It's labor which consists of people who _have broken US law_, and it's hired by people who are also breaking US law. It's like that article a few weeks back which called an armed home invader an "unwanted house visitor". These people _can't legally work here_, like, at all. If this is something you don't like, have your congresspeople change the law. Selective enforcement of laws is an insanely slippery slope, you won't like where it ends.

I'm an immigrant myself. I didn't just come here and start working. I had to go through a lot of hoops so that the US would make sure I wasn't going to be a burden and my presence in the US could be good for the US.

Re: A Kingdom from Dust (2018)

#50

Post by Nasrudith »

empath75 wrote: post #13
patrickg_zill wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The benefits of this labor go to the private business, while the economic and social costs (education, healthcare including pregnancies the workers don't earn enough to pay for, so the state pays for it) are borne by others.

And they scapegoat the workers who are powerless, instead of the employers, like Trump.

Cynically it appears to be several additional layers of fucked up misdirection. First off the immigration enforcement targeting by employee's effects seems to be geared actively at undermining worker power to say "give me a raise or I will head down the street" by suppression targetted at employees instead of demand while giving a deniable cudgel.

Many of the people complaining about illegal immigrants while benefiting are shocked when their shakedowns result in labor shortages because people actually take them at their word. Regardless of intentions it is worth condemning because nothing works for any valid stated purpose. The resulting system is a massive web of interblended malice and stupidity of actors who refuse to learn that characterizes much of legal policy like the war on drugs. It isn't an American thing or even a capitalism thing. The USSR had plenty of stupid-malicious systems. I suspect sociopaths are to blame in all cases - it bears their thumbprints of dysfunctional systems that benefit them personally and get people to act selfishly in a way that doesn't even benefit them.

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