Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 268 posts

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#41

Post by ndnxhs »

sovietmudkipz wrote: post #36
baroffoos wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sharing knowledge and advancing technology for everyone is something to be proud of. Society needs to end the practice of hoarding private knowledge.

I think the idea behind intellectual property is to encourage people to take risks associated with developing something new and profit through their innovations. If all new discoveries were the property of the state/public then there wouldn't be a high incentive to be inventive for any given individual. It's like if everyone was a farmer but everything harvested was immediately taken from the farmer. Why would any fa…

Its unfortunate that out economical system discourages sharing and rewards those who act selfishly. If the farmers needs were taken care of, they would push to make better tech to make their lives easier and provide more food for the rest of their country.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#42

Post by tivert »

Hongwei wrote: post #26
greglindahl wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I said, this is the first release of the details of the charges. I'm already familiar with the history of the case, I've been following it closely.

Nothing in the article is substantially new, as someone who's been following this story closely. Perhaps coverage of this story for you as (presumably) an American is lighter than it has been for us up here. That's okay, and I wasn't speaking for you when I meant "us Canadians." Sorry.

> Nothing in the article is substantially new, as someone who's been following this story closely.

The stuff on the filing of formal charges is new. The (literal) date-stamp on the indictment is from Thursday: https://assets.bwbx.io/documents/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/rIz2tT7h...

Since there's some redaction (and the flurry of posts on this exact same topic), I'm guessing it took until today for them to be publicly released.

Another thing that's new (to me at least) is that they indicted Huawei itself, not just Mrs. Meng. A lot of the previous reporting that I read focused on her actions exclusively (probably due to extradition hearing).

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#43

Post by EpicEng »

onetimemanytime wrote: post #29
panarky wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's conspiracy to commit bank fraud if you lie to a US bank to get them to clear US dollar transactions in violation of sanctions. Banks pay astronomical fines for evading sanctions. Infographic -> https://www.refinitiv.com/content/dam/gl/en/documents/infogr... And it's conspiracy to defraud the United States if you obstruct or defeat an agency of the US government. Also money laundering, wire fraud, stealing trade…

Like I said, they do not consider it a crime. Lying to the banks was means to an end--doing business with Iran. Like if you deal drugs, you will also evade taxes.

>Like if you deal drugs, you will also evade taxes

And if they IRS finds out they are coming after you. They don't care that the money was made illegally.

Besides, these sanctions we're passed by the UN, not the US, and China is a voting member.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#44

Post by naringas »

sovietmudkipz wrote: post #36
baroffoos wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sharing knowledge and advancing technology for everyone is something to be proud of. Society needs to end the practice of hoarding private knowledge.

I think the idea behind intellectual property is to encourage people to take risks associated with developing something new and profit through their innovations. If all new discoveries were the property of the state/public then there wouldn't be a high incentive to be inventive for any given individual. It's like if everyone was a farmer but everything harvested was immediately taken from the farmer. Why would any fa…

I think that if we got rid of those incentives people would still innovate

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#45

Post by nosequel »

baroffoos wrote: post #33
educationdata wrote: post #23

In China, stealing trade secrets is called “打破技术封锁” (breaking the technical blockade). The U.S. does not even need to collect evidence through investigation. Just by reading Chinese news reports and textbooks, you will find there are lots of Chinese nationalist stories about their hero technician / scientists steal western technologies. They are literally proud of it. I heard from my Chinese friends who work in the U…

Sharing knowledge and advancing technology for everyone is something to be proud of. Society needs to end the practice of hoarding private knowledge.

China stole trade secrets and technology from US Steel and Alcor (aluminum) that allowed them to catch up in technology at an unreasonable pace. This is just one huge example. They don't innovate, they steal and then copy, undercutting others' costs.

The US metal producing industry has taken a huge hit and they were the ones to put the R&D money into the production technology.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#46

Post by ndnxhs »

pkaye wrote: post #39
ndnxhs wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its sad to think how many amazing inventions never get used because they are encumbered by patents or kept secret.

Patents allow for the knowledge to be documented and the patent has a limited term after which anyone can use it. Without patents, more things would be kept as a trade secret.

The majority of things in patents could not be kept secret. What we end up with is disposable products because every part is patented so you can't make replacements or other devices that are compatible.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#47

Post by peteradio »

baroffoos wrote: post #33
educationdata wrote: post #23

In China, stealing trade secrets is called “打破技术封锁” (breaking the technical blockade). The U.S. does not even need to collect evidence through investigation. Just by reading Chinese news reports and textbooks, you will find there are lots of Chinese nationalist stories about their hero technician / scientists steal western technologies. They are literally proud of it. I heard from my Chinese friends who work in the U…

Sharing knowledge and advancing technology for everyone is something to be proud of. Society needs to end the practice of hoarding private knowledge.

Ya how dare anyone make money from their well researched work!!!

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#48

Post by tivert »

naringas wrote: post #44
sovietmudkipz wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the idea behind intellectual property is to encourage people to take risks associated with developing something new and profit through their innovations. If all new discoveries were the property of the state/public then there wouldn't be a high incentive to be inventive for any given individual. It's like if everyone was a farmer but everything harvested was immediately taken from the farmer. Why would any fa…

I think that if we got rid of those incentives people would still innovate

> I think that if we got rid of those incentives people would still innovate

Yes, but then they'd keep their innovations secret as trade secrets or they would only innovate when it was cheap and unrisky.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#49

Post by peteradio »

naringas wrote: post #44
sovietmudkipz wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the idea behind intellectual property is to encourage people to take risks associated with developing something new and profit through their innovations. If all new discoveries were the property of the state/public then there wouldn't be a high incentive to be inventive for any given individual. It's like if everyone was a farmer but everything harvested was immediately taken from the farmer. Why would any fa…

I think that if we got rid of those incentives people would still innovate

If someone stole their invention and made money off it?? Why the hell would anyone want to invest time into that? Its not like the Chinese are pursuing some ideology of free knowledge, no they are trying to scoop for profit.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#50

Post by vkou »

educationdata wrote: post #23

In China, stealing trade secrets is called “打破技术封锁” (breaking the technical blockade). The U.S. does not even need to collect evidence through investigation. Just by reading Chinese news reports and textbooks, you will find there are lots of Chinese nationalist stories about their hero technician / scientists steal western technologies. They are literally proud of it. I heard from my Chinese friends who work in the U…

> Just by reading Chinese news reports and textbooks, you will find there are lots of Chinese nationalist stories about their hero technician / scientists steal western technologies. They are literally proud of it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Slater

> He memorized the designs of textile factory machinery as an apprentice to a pioneer in the British industry before migrating to the United States at the age of 21. He designed the first textile mills in the US and later went into business for himself, developing a family business with his sons.

Slater memorized these trade secrets, because any papers containing these designs would have been confiscated from him.

Consider also the brain drain, wherein educated professionals have, over the past few decades, been siphoned out of the developing world, attracted by higher remuneration in the West. This is not a dissimilar process, but it is operating in reverse.

Post reply on HN