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More businesses are not accepting cash

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Re: More businesses are not accepting cash

#41

Post by lostlogin »

jdietrich wrote: post #32
acommentator wrote: post #27

A real nightmare occurs when a large number of businesses don't accept cash. As this process proceeds, people who are unbanked or can't get a credit care are now not only locked out of the financial system, but also the monetary system! It hugely centralizes the management of the entire consumer economy in the hands of a few bankers who have no responsibility to the electorate - and there's no escape valve. I would s…

>I would see this practice immediately banned. That's just covering up for a bigger problem. If you've got a lot of people without bank accounts, just make it easier to open a bank account. Here in the UK, you can open an account in minutes on your mobile phone with any photo ID, even if you're not a UK resident. Banks are required by the banking code to offer fee-free accounts regardless of credit history and to acc…

> Here in the UK, you can open an account in minutes on your mobile phone with any photo ID, even if you're not a UK resident.

Is this a relatively new thing? One of the biggest bureaucratic nightmares I’ve ever had was opening an account in the UK.

Closing it was even worse. I emptied it from an ATM then walked in and asked to close it. They agreeed then handed me a fist full of money that I’d already withdrawn from the ATM. I queried what was going on and a months long misery ensued as they seemed to think I was trying to defraud them.

Re: More businesses are not accepting cash

#42

Post by derefr »

csomar wrote: post #40

This problem can be solved by making it mandatory for banks to accept any customer. I live in a country where the law oblige the bank to open an account for anyone. By law, they can't refuse you. There is also another solution: A government sponsored debit card. Maybe made and managed by a government owned organisation (like the postal service).

"Rechargeable" prepaid credit cards are also a thing. Essentially all the functionality of a "secured" credit card, with only the set-up requirements of a gift card.

Re: More businesses are not accepting cash

#44

Post by rubito »

throwaway98121 wrote: post #3

Unrelated but husband and I stopped at an Indian grocery store to pick up some items for a chicken tikka masala recipe we found on YouTube. They insisted we pay cash, even though they had a machine to swipe a card. We don’t carry cash and assumed their card machine was broken. As we apologized and started leaving, they suddenly agreed to accept a credit card. Presumably the transaction costs per swipe are high, altho…

In Spain most Chinese Euroshops will when you pay in cash not give you a receipt until you ask and then they will give excuses why you don't need one.

Re: More businesses are not accepting cash

#45

Post by rubito »

kmlx wrote: post #24
1over137 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Specifically, they pass it on to all their customers, not to only those customers using cards (doing so is against the merchant-processor agreements). i.e. those using cards are in effect increasing the price for those not using cards.

in many places in europe there will be a surcharge added depending on the type of card you’re paying with.

I have never seen that happen anywhere in the EU.

Re: More businesses are not accepting cash

#46

Post by pbhjpbhj »

eigenvector wrote: post #38
TheChaplain wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The transaction costs are unfortunately not negligible for small vendors, they don't have the power to negotiate like Walmart et al.

Cash has transaction costs too, and those are already built into business pricing: 1. Time spent by staff counting and reconciling cash after close of business or at the end of a shift 2. Time spent on bank runs or on an armoured car service that picks up your cash and deposits it at the bank 3. Banks actually charge businesses cash-handling fees for both providing and receiving large quantities of coins 4. Safes and…

Re 3. our UK bank charges us to deposit any cash not just coinage.

The cash (notes) is deposited by putting it in a machine at the bank. I guess withdrawals of cash are so small now that they want to restrict inputs of cash to avoid their own handling costs.

Re: More businesses are not accepting cash

#47

Post by bicubic »

jdietrich wrote: post #32
acommentator wrote: post #27

A real nightmare occurs when a large number of businesses don't accept cash. As this process proceeds, people who are unbanked or can't get a credit care are now not only locked out of the financial system, but also the monetary system! It hugely centralizes the management of the entire consumer economy in the hands of a few bankers who have no responsibility to the electorate - and there's no escape valve. I would s…

>I would see this practice immediately banned. That's just covering up for a bigger problem. If you've got a lot of people without bank accounts, just make it easier to open a bank account. Here in the UK, you can open an account in minutes on your mobile phone with any photo ID, even if you're not a UK resident. Banks are required by the banking code to offer fee-free accounts regardless of credit history and to acc…

The problem isn't about how difficult it may be to open an account. The problem is that banks become gatekeepers for the ability to exchange legal tender for goods and services.

I could write an entire essay on the problems this causes if cashless business becomes wideapread. But a few highlights include:

* A positive feedback loop will form due to less cash being accepted => less cash circulating => less reason for businesses to accept cash

* Banks able to de-platform individuals and lock them out from access to life necessities

* Governments likewise able to de-platform individuals as a neat new way to oppress dissidents and undesirables

* The telco backbone of a nation becomes a one stop shop for a decapitating attack. Telco is also one of the first utilities to fail during natural disasters

* Impossible to purchase goods/services without it being logged, surveilled, and used to manipulate you with individualised advertising

* Once cash circulation drops below a critical point, opening or operating a business will not be possible without accepting card payments. That's your plumber, the kid who walks your dog, anyone offering any goods/services. Banks are now in control of who can receive money in addition to who can spend it.

* Ditto for p2p transactions

Anything that threatens the universal acceptability of legal tender should be viewed as a national security threat.

Re: More businesses are not accepting cash

#48

Post by a3n »

I was at a truck stop in Wyoming the other day. "Our internet is down." Breakfast was cash only. Scaling your truck was cash only. I see the word "satellite" on a lot of pumps, but my ignorant assumption is that buying fuel is still dependent on a working internet. Or cash.

I didn't fuel there, so I don't know if fueling was affected. But I have been to other truck stops where "our system is down" and I couldn't fuel (I don't carry that much cash, but some do). I had to call my company to get fueling authorized elsewhere.

There are other types of walking-around non-cash payment systems besides credit/debit cards. If you want to go nosing around:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=trucking+fuel+card&t=lm&ia=web

Of those, my employer uses Comdata for fueling and other expenses: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comdata

Paying for "lumpers" (a third party loading/unloading service) is done (in our company) with a Comcheck, an actual paper check, that requires using the truck's communication terminal and making a phone call to get authorization. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=comcheck+comdata&t=lm&ia=web

Re: More businesses are not accepting cash

#49

Post by pbhjpbhj »

kmlx wrote: post #24
1over137 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Specifically, they pass it on to all their customers, not to only those customers using cards (doing so is against the merchant-processor agreements). i.e. those using cards are in effect increasing the price for those not using cards.

in many places in europe there will be a surcharge added depending on the type of card you’re paying with.

It still happens in UK (some small businesses) but AFAIK [1] it's no longer legal.

It's a massive problem for businesses with lots of small transactions, if you're selling a £2 coffee and the CC processor charges 30p + 5% per transaction. Previously nearly no-one would pay the extra, now you have to cover it; so you make the coffee £2.40 ... but the large retailer with a blanket 3% transaction cost (or whatever) can undercut you by quite a lot.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/jun/17/credit-debit-c...

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