Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

More businesses are not accepting cash

wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 82 posts

Re: More businesses are not accepting cash

#31

Post by cco »

jzchang wrote: post #20

This is anecdotal: here in Shanghai it's not uncommon that vendors(specifically street-side small vendors) will turn down customers paying with cash payments. Those that do unwillingly sigh and look for change. Vendors all assume immediately they're going to scan your QR code or you will scan theirs. Even taxis have their QR Codes printed out on their dashboard somewhere. Subway systems and buses all use QR codes. Re…

Why does Venmo feel cumbersome in comparison? You scan a QR code, type in an amount and send; that sounds like what you're describing no?

Re: More businesses are not accepting cash

#32

Post by jdietrich »

acommentator wrote: post #27

A real nightmare occurs when a large number of businesses don't accept cash. As this process proceeds, people who are unbanked or can't get a credit care are now not only locked out of the financial system, but also the monetary system! It hugely centralizes the management of the entire consumer economy in the hands of a few bankers who have no responsibility to the electorate - and there's no escape valve. I would s…

>I would see this practice immediately banned.

That's just covering up for a bigger problem. If you've got a lot of people without bank accounts, just make it easier to open a bank account. Here in the UK, you can open an account in minutes on your mobile phone with any photo ID, even if you're not a UK resident. Banks are required by the banking code to offer fee-free accounts regardless of credit history and to accept a wide range of identity documents, including letters from the welfare agency or a homeless hostel.

https://monese.com/

https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/basic-bank...

Re: More businesses are not accepting cash

#33

Post by techsupporter »

zhte415 wrote: post #10
throwaway98121 wrote: post #3

Unrelated but husband and I stopped at an Indian grocery store to pick up some items for a chicken tikka masala recipe we found on YouTube. They insisted we pay cash, even though they had a machine to swipe a card. We don’t carry cash and assumed their card machine was broken. As we apologized and started leaving, they suddenly agreed to accept a credit card. Presumably the transaction costs per swipe are high, altho…

I'm curious why you don't carry cash?

It's a fair question. I'm not the person to whom you replied but thought I'd contribute my view point.

I don't carry cash because it feels more cumbersome and less speedy than paying with card. With cash, I either have to work out close to exact change or--when I'm out for a leisure day and going to several places--have a mass of coins jangling around at the end. I've noticed that I'm now irrationally irritated watching someone painstakingly count out $12.83 in exact change ahead of me at the till.

It also makes it difficult for me to track where I'm spending. That $60 or $100 might have gone to eating out or a bookstore or some other random place. I'd rather have the card transaction to know and categorize for sure.

Speaking of denominations, I'd rather not carry much money around on me yet ATMs around me only dispense in multiples of $20 and then you get into the fun dance of how to get smaller bills if needed. So many shops now say "no change made."

Finally, I put all of the spending I can (basically everything except mortgage and student loan payments) on cards for the card benefits. Miles, automatic cash back, in-store discounts, etc. Those don't happen when paying by cash. (Yes, I know, the benefits are being paid out of the transaction fees that the merchant is charged plus interest that other people pay. I'm aware that I'm leveraging that and that prices would, possibly, be lower overall if we didn't use cards or didn't have the rewards. If that day comes, I will adapt.)

Re: More businesses are not accepting cash

#34

Post by jdietrich »

TheChaplain wrote: post #13
throwaway98121 wrote: post #3

Unrelated but husband and I stopped at an Indian grocery store to pick up some items for a chicken tikka masala recipe we found on YouTube. They insisted we pay cash, even though they had a machine to swipe a card. We don’t carry cash and assumed their card machine was broken. As we apologized and started leaving, they suddenly agreed to accept a credit card. Presumably the transaction costs per swipe are high, altho…

The transaction costs are unfortunately not negligible for small vendors, they don't have the power to negotiate like Walmart et al.

Blame reward cards and a lack of regulation on interchange fees. Stripe charge 1.4% for European cards, but 2.9% for non-European cards. In the UK, a brick-and-mortar retailer with fairly modest volumes can pay as little as 0.35% for debit card transactions; factoring in labour costs, it's often cheaper overall to accept cards than cash.

Re: More businesses are not accepting cash

#35

Post by doikor »

kmlx wrote: post #24
1over137 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Specifically, they pass it on to all their customers, not to only those customers using cards (doing so is against the merchant-processor agreements). i.e. those using cards are in effect increasing the price for those not using cards.

in many places in europe there will be a surcharge added depending on the type of card you’re paying with.

And in some places in Europe that is illegal. At least here in Finland adding any hidden fees to a retail list price is illegal (meaning that VAT is already in the sticker price too)

Re: More businesses are not accepting cash

#36

Post by jzchang »

cco wrote: post #31
jzchang wrote: post #20

This is anecdotal: here in Shanghai it's not uncommon that vendors(specifically street-side small vendors) will turn down customers paying with cash payments. Those that do unwillingly sigh and look for change. Vendors all assume immediately they're going to scan your QR code or you will scan theirs. Even taxis have their QR Codes printed out on their dashboard somewhere. Subway systems and buses all use QR codes. Re…

Why does Venmo feel cumbersome in comparison? You scan a QR code, type in an amount and send; that sounds like what you're describing no?

When I mentioned cumbersome, I'm referring to these things: transferring cash between personal checking to and from Venmo balance, and the number of people who use Venmo.

While both services offer immediate transfer(within an hour) from balance to bank account, Alipay's is free while Venmo asks for a small fee(or free for same/next day).

Then, population usage. Cheap Hot dog stands in NYC only accept cash. Apple pay if they're trendy.

All Dumpling/bun street stands in Shanghai use Alipay. Everyone in China uses Alipay.

In America I’ve found it to be a "Venmo? Zelle? Cash?" charade when it comes to exchanging cash.

Although don’t get me wrong Venmo has made splitting checks in America easier between friends - but it just feels like I only use Venmo for that purpose(splitting bills between friends) while Alipay I use everywhere.

I realize now cumbersome wasn't the best word to use to differentiate Venmo and Alipay - the better word to describe the differences between these services is "usability". And of course, I should also mention that these two services are geared towards two different services, so its a bit unfair to compare.

Re: More businesses are not accepting cash

#37

Post by randomacct3847 »

czl_my wrote: post #21

As someone who have worked in audit, I can see why business would choose not to accept cash considering the amount of fraud taking place. It is much easier for a cashier to take the cash and not issue/re-use receipts. Maybe the transaction fees would be lesser than the probability*amount of cash-related fraud.

I thought one of the main benefits to accepting cash is to underreport revenue for tax purposes.

Re: More businesses are not accepting cash

#38

Post by eigenvector »

TheChaplain wrote: post #13
throwaway98121 wrote: post #3

Unrelated but husband and I stopped at an Indian grocery store to pick up some items for a chicken tikka masala recipe we found on YouTube. They insisted we pay cash, even though they had a machine to swipe a card. We don’t carry cash and assumed their card machine was broken. As we apologized and started leaving, they suddenly agreed to accept a credit card. Presumably the transaction costs per swipe are high, altho…

The transaction costs are unfortunately not negligible for small vendors, they don't have the power to negotiate like Walmart et al.

Cash has transaction costs too, and those are already built into business pricing:

1. Time spent by staff counting and reconciling cash after close of business or at the end of a shift

2. Time spent on bank runs or on an armoured car service that picks up your cash and deposits it at the bank

3. Banks actually charge businesses cash-handling fees for both providing and receiving large quantities of coins

4. Safes and other security mechanisms for keeping cash on your premises

5. Higher insurance premiums when you have lots of cash on hand

Businesses that completely eliminate cash also eliminate these costs.

Re: More businesses are not accepting cash

#39

Post by rmason »

jzchang wrote: post #20

This is anecdotal: here in Shanghai it's not uncommon that vendors(specifically street-side small vendors) will turn down customers paying with cash payments. Those that do unwillingly sigh and look for change. Vendors all assume immediately they're going to scan your QR code or you will scan theirs. Even taxis have their QR Codes printed out on their dashboard somewhere. Subway systems and buses all use QR codes. Re…

Is it possible for a foreign traveler to just download the software to his phone assuming there's an English version? Or must you open a Chinese bank account first? If that's the case there's a pretty huge opportunity for someone!

Re: More businesses are not accepting cash

#40

Post by csomar »

This problem can be solved by making it mandatory for banks to accept any customer. I live in a country where the law oblige the bank to open an account for anyone. By law, they can't refuse you.

There is also another solution: A government sponsored debit card. Maybe made and managed by a government owned organisation (like the postal service).

Post reply on HN