Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost • Hacker News Board

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#41

Post by wrs » Mon, Dec 03, 2018, 5:29 PM UTC

danesparza wrote: post #23

bussierem wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When there have already been numerous well-documented instances of people making false accusations that absolutely RUIN THE LIVES of the defendants, it can hardly be a surprise that people with a lot to lose would take drastic, if ill-though-out, measures to protect themselves from that possibility. As another comment said, even when the false accusations are found to be false, it's usually too late for the defendant…

Numerous? Well-documented? I don't mean to be inflammatory -- but I must reading different news that you are. Can you please cite your sources? To be clear: Numerous (to me) means approaching 20% of all accusations. That's only 1 in every 5 accusations. Does numerous mean something else to you?

I’m wondering if this is something like the numerous and well-documented instances of child kidnapping that have kept a generation of kids from being allowed outside by themselves.

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#42

Post by jshaqaw » Mon, Dec 03, 2018, 5:30 PM UTC

stdplaceholder wrote: post #11

I haven't worked on Wall Street for about 10 years, but when I did it was unbelievably misogynistic. None of our dozens of partners were women. The younger partners referred to their wives as "my first wife" while they were still married to them. The older ones of course were all on their third or fourth marriage. And the president of the firm, who was old enough to personally remember the Hindenburg disaster, just w…

Wall Street has moved on with the times as has the rest of the world in the last 10 years. At this point I don’t think it is an outlier in terms of social attitudes. If anything it is at least outwardly more progressive by virtue of A. Being based in major metro areas B. A shift in skill set demand away from extrovert Lacrosse bros towards quants/techies and C. The amount of money on the line to blow up in a bad HR situation. Are there dinosaurs and jerks? Yeah. But not a disproportionate number.

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#43

Post by csense » Mon, Dec 03, 2018, 5:30 PM UTC

hodgesrm wrote: post #38

> Finally, he landed on the solution: “Just try not to be an asshole.” It's kind of astonishing how long it takes some people see this obvious answer. Expert hint: It also solves a lot of other workplace issues as well.

How does that protect you from false accusations?

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#44

Post by jerf » Mon, Dec 03, 2018, 5:30 PM UTC

neaden wrote: post #24

bussierem wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When there have already been numerous well-documented instances of people making false accusations that absolutely RUIN THE LIVES of the defendants, it can hardly be a surprise that people with a lot to lose would take drastic, if ill-though-out, measures to protect themselves from that possibility. As another comment said, even when the false accusations are found to be false, it's usually too late for the defendant…

Hey, can you show me some of these well documented instances? The Duke Lacross case gets brought up a lot, but all those guys were exonerated and as far as I'm aware doing fine. Kavanaugh just got appointed to the Supreme Court and Lois C.K is popping up to do comedy sets, so I'm curious to see these many well documented cases you refer to.

Even accepting your cited cases as the limit (which they are not), I can't accept being nationally and universally condemned and smeared for months or years on end despite being innocent as a perfectly acceptable outcome for a baseless accusation. I suspect you'd be a lot less flippant about how everything turned out fine if you'd be in any of their positions.

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#45

Post by glbrew » Mon, Dec 03, 2018, 5:30 PM UTC

eigenspace wrote: post #14

buboard wrote: post #7

The middle east has been doing this for decades.

Glad to see we're progressing to the enlightened gender policies of the middle east /s

I'm not defending their gender policies per se but I am increasingly jealous of societies that actually have a culture other than neoliberalism. Every society has its faults but I'm seriously wondering if ours may be much greater than those we love to attack (like the middle east). At least they have large cohesive families they live close to, share meals with, enjoy traditions with. It seems like most Americans don't even have that anymore. But at least women are "free" to sell junk CDOs to middle America. Thank God!

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#46

Post by tomp » Mon, Dec 03, 2018, 5:30 PM UTC

neaden wrote: post #24

bussierem wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When there have already been numerous well-documented instances of people making false accusations that absolutely RUIN THE LIVES of the defendants, it can hardly be a surprise that people with a lot to lose would take drastic, if ill-though-out, measures to protect themselves from that possibility. As another comment said, even when the false accusations are found to be false, it's usually too late for the defendant…

Hey, can you show me some of these well documented instances? The Duke Lacross case gets brought up a lot, but all those guys were exonerated and as far as I'm aware doing fine. Kavanaugh just got appointed to the Supreme Court and Lois C.K is popping up to do comedy sets, so I'm curious to see these many well documented cases you refer to.

A few outhers are: Oxford Union president, Jian Gomeshi, "The Mattress Girl".

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#47

Post by YorkshireSeason » Mon, Dec 03, 2018, 5:30 PM UTC

danesparza wrote: post #5

So as a father of two daughters in their 20's, this makes me sad. Instead of attempting to see women as equals and moving to bridge the gap -- the best solution Wall Street can come up with is to further isolate themselves? Why can't these men just learn to treat women like the humans they are?

   Why can't these men just learn

Look what you have not said: "Why can't these women just learn ..." Somewhow you only seem to require men to do things? Are you arguing that it's acceptable for women falsely to accuse men? Ask yourself: what have you done to ensure that women not falsely accuse men? Have you had "the talk" with your daughters about false accusations?

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#48

Post by throwawaymath » Mon, Dec 03, 2018, 5:31 PM UTC

CiPHPerCoder wrote: post #31

This is cowardice. Rational cowardice, perhaps, but still cowardice nonetheless. > “Some men have voiced concerns to me that a false accusation is what they fear,” said Zweig, the lawyer. “These men fear what they cannot control.” This reveals so much about the mentality of the people being interviewed. The statistics of false rape accusations do not justify this concern. I would expect that an industry that copes wi…

What is the difference between cowardice and "rational cowardice"?

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#49

Post by dvtrn » Mon, Dec 03, 2018, 5:31 PM UTC

falcolas wrote: post #2

Personal opinion - the lack of a "innocent until proven guilty" judicial system when it comes to sexual harassment claims is what has caused much of the fear of women. Colleges, businesses, and online communities almost always simply believe the victim, and even if a trial should occur and the accused is vindicated, the accused has already been fired, expelled, or crucified by public opinion. The records of the accus…

We enshrine these in our public justice system; it needs to be spread to private companies as well.

If I've come to appreciate anything-among many things-in the last few years of this cultural evolution full of "social justice" debate, discussion and forums-it's that there are pockets of the social fabric who seem very eager to suspend elements of the public justice system or eagerness to put a moratorium on certain 'memes' inherent to our system of adjudicating wrong deemed absolutely necessary or otherwise considered baked in, incontrovertible features of Western "justice" (because fairness, equanimity, better 100 guilty go free than 1 innocent go to jail etc) in just about every realm that isn't a court room where they would beholden to certain burdens and requirements to satisfy other 'memes' inherent to our system of adjudicating wrong.

Edit: I really wish the people who have such an issue trying to explore and openly discuss these ideas (even if you personally disagree with them) would step forward and actually offer a counter response versus driveby downvotes of myself and wutbrodo who replied here-and other comments here in the thread trying to actually explore the issue on a level that isn't surface level, shooting from the hip reactions. Barely fresh for 20 minutes and we're both nearly greyed out.

Re: Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

#50

Post by CiPHPerCoder » Mon, Dec 03, 2018, 5:31 PM UTC

glbrew wrote: post #45

eigenspace wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glad to see we're progressing to the enlightened gender policies of the middle east /s

I'm not defending their gender policies per se but I am increasingly jealous of societies that actually have a culture other than neoliberalism. Every society has its faults but I'm seriously wondering if ours may be much greater than those we love to attack (like the middle east). At least they have large cohesive families they live close to, share meals with, enjoy traditions with. It seems like most Americans don'…

> I'm not defending their gender policies per say but I am increasingly jealous of societies that actually have a culture other than neoliberalism.

https://scatteredquotes.com/everything-word-horse-shit/