The Decline and Fall of the American Empire • Hacker News Board

Re: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire

#41

Post by Areading314 » Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 4:15 PM UTC

Areading314 wrote: post #2

Can we stop calling the world's largest democracy an empire? Belligerent nation sure but it's so click baity and inaccurate

OK people, the definition of empire is this:

From merriam-webster:

1 a

(1) : a major political unit having a territory of great extent or a number of territories or peoples under a single sovereign authority; especially : one having an emperor as chief of state

(2) : the territory of such a political unit

b : something resembling a political empire; especially : an extensive territory or enterprise under single domination or control

2 : imperial sovereignty, rule, or dominion

3 capitalized [Empire State, nickname for New York] : a juicy apple with dark red skin that is a cross between a McIntosh apple and a Red Delicious apple

Since the US does not have a single authority controlling it (i.e. "is a democracy") it cannot be an empire. They are mutually exclusive according to the dictionary.

Re: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire

#42

Post by dalbasal » Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 4:18 PM UTC

evrydayhustling wrote: post #20

The most important factor in this analysis doesn't get called out by name: healthcare costs. When Cowen mentions entitlement growth forcing spending reduction and tax increases, healthcare is both the most certain and the biggest culprit by a wide margin. If you were going to do one thing to extend American prosperity, it would be disruptive structural improvements to our healthcare system. That's structural reform,…

With the exception of the military economy, how many successful restructurings have there been of major industries? Is it possible for a polity to decide such a thing and do it?

As an outsider getting occasional (and highly combative) tidbits of the last american health system debate... It seems like a tall order. Doesn't seem possible to make a reform that (a) half the people don't think is the devil's work and (b) works in theory, which is important to Americans and (c) works in practice.

Re: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire

#43

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 4:59 PM UTC

evrydayhustling wrote: post #20

The most important factor in this analysis doesn't get called out by name: healthcare costs. When Cowen mentions entitlement growth forcing spending reduction and tax increases, healthcare is both the most certain and the biggest culprit by a wide margin. If you were going to do one thing to extend American prosperity, it would be disruptive structural improvements to our healthcare system. That's structural reform,…

[deleted]

Re: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire

#44

Post by pwaai » Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 5:04 PM UTC

dalbasal wrote: post #39

I like the author, and his out there style has produced some gems. This article though, it feels like he started, but didn't really get anywhere. What is (for the purpose of this article) "American Empire" anyway? If it's relative economic & military power, than the writing is on the wall. China is matching and surpassing the US now. Is it "Empire of the Mind" where the US leads the world in terms of political ideas,…

American Empire is referring to the vast network of American corporations that permeates every aspect of global life. Starbucks, tv, cars, internet, smartphones, culture, films, music. China is nowhere near close.

Military wise China is still very behind and does not have projection capability (as USN has port calls that covers 90% of the coast lines).

Economic wise China is in frail shape as it's built on mountain of debt that other countries like the US can recall. The US is unique since they can always print more and let other countries eat the costs.

The American empire is far from gone and since we aren't going to be speaking Mandarin anytime soon here in North America I'd say keep dreaming the dream.

Re: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire

#45

Post by fixermark » Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 5:08 PM UTC

_cs2017_ wrote: post #40

Stupid click bait. Expected to read about the fall of civilization in America, kinda like a fusion of Mad Max + Walking Dead. Instead read about high taxes and elderly people causing congestion on the roads. That's what happens when economists write, they make the coolest topic boring af.

The reality of decline is going to be quite boring.

Boring,and a world worse than today in many ways, if we don't get out ahead of the failure modes.

Re: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire

#46

Post by neuromantik8086 » Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 5:08 PM UTC

hokumguru wrote: post #24

It seems that American journalists and coastal elites do nothing more lately than (ironically) talk about how much they hate their country. What happened to patriotism? Why is it so 'cool' nowadays to hate the USA?

Maybe you should ask Ethan Allen [0] or the New England Federalist Party [1] about patriotism. I'm sure they'd proffer some good insights.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haldimand_Affair

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartford_Convention

Re: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire

#47

Post by bdamm » Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 5:09 PM UTC

dalbasal wrote: post #42

evrydayhustling wrote: post #20

The most important factor in this analysis doesn't get called out by name: healthcare costs. When Cowen mentions entitlement growth forcing spending reduction and tax increases, healthcare is both the most certain and the biggest culprit by a wide margin. If you were going to do one thing to extend American prosperity, it would be disruptive structural improvements to our healthcare system. That's structural reform,…

With the exception of the military economy, how many successful restructurings have there been of major industries? Is it possible for a polity to decide such a thing and do it? As an outsider getting occasional (and highly combative) tidbits of the last american health system debate... It seems like a tall order. Doesn't seem possible to make a reform that (a) half the people don't think is the devil's work and (b)…

* Telecom industry * Utility industry * Road-building industry * Railroad industry * Oil & gas industry

Seems to me that governments, including American Federal and State governments, do it all the time. In fact, it's so common, that I wonder if that's the main function of government.

Re: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire

#48

Post by evrydayhustling » Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 5:14 PM UTC

dalbasal wrote: post #42

evrydayhustling wrote: post #20

The most important factor in this analysis doesn't get called out by name: healthcare costs. When Cowen mentions entitlement growth forcing spending reduction and tax increases, healthcare is both the most certain and the biggest culprit by a wide margin. If you were going to do one thing to extend American prosperity, it would be disruptive structural improvements to our healthcare system. That's structural reform,…

With the exception of the military economy, how many successful restructurings have there been of major industries? Is it possible for a polity to decide such a thing and do it? As an outsider getting occasional (and highly combative) tidbits of the last american health system debate... It seems like a tall order. Doesn't seem possible to make a reform that (a) half the people don't think is the devil's work and (b)…

Yeah, I am pessimistic about the polity being the source of change. Classically, top-down reform from a polity involves some form of nationalization, which our last reform cycle attempted.

Excluding ethics / philosophy of that kind of seizure, it's just a hard computational problem to orchestrate a centralized reform of something so complex. It becomes impossible when the system being reformed gets involved, buying politicians on both sides to impact the future and influencing public perception. And how could they not? It's hard to even fathom the stakes: a highly centralized industry capturing 10% of US GDP.

That's why, at the risk of being a tech culture charicature, I think business innovation from outside the industry is more likely to make a dent than politics.

Re: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire

#49

Post by mnm1 » Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 5:18 PM UTC

hokumguru wrote: post #24

It seems that American journalists and coastal elites do nothing more lately than (ironically) talk about how much they hate their country. What happened to patriotism? Why is it so 'cool' nowadays to hate the USA?

You should ask our president and his party why they support Russia more than Americans. That's what happened to patriotism. We got betrayed.

Re: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire

#50

Post by t1lthesky » Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 5:28 PM UTC

hokumguru wrote: post #24

It seems that American journalists and coastal elites do nothing more lately than (ironically) talk about how much they hate their country. What happened to patriotism? Why is it so 'cool' nowadays to hate the USA?

It seems as though you read only the article title and made a snap judgement of the author based on your preconceptions.

Here’s the first three sentences from the actual article:

“So what would the decline of America look like? I don’t ask the question because I think it’s happening (yet?), but because even the most inveterate optimist should be interested in the dangers, if only to ward them off.”