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Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

latimes.com

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Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#41

Post by muse900 »

sametmax wrote: post #11

And if you think it's bad, it's even worse in Europe. Taking the French example: I'm an freelancer, but I used to have a contract with an American company. They gave me 3x the salary most of my French colleagues would get, while keeping the exact same social advantages (they paid me through a French branch). However, to them, the salary was twice lower than what they would have paid for the same guy in the Valley. No…

My example comes from Greece where I reside for the past 9 months.

People owning touristic buisnesses on the islands are moaning about how much they need more staff and can't find any, and they are arguing why younger people tend to not work and just receive benefits instead of going to work.

The argument here that they won't understand though is that, 1st they are paying very low. They are all willing to pay the minimum salary available... which is somewhat 500 euros. It varies from 500 to 900 euros and 1200 in best cases. The unemployment benefit is 400+ euros per month. So tell me who in their right minds would go to work for 500 euros or even 800 euros, whilst they have to spend petrol to get from and to work, work prolly 10+ hours a day, in the sun most likely cause thats what means tourism industry, get told by 'BOSSES' on what to do, and get treated awfully. There is just no point. And then all I hear from those guys owning massive hotels making 1m+ revenue in their pockets per year saying : 'Cant find anyone good to work for you nowadays, its all youngsters fault'. Well ok I'll admit that prolly youngsters dont have the nerves that older people had in their age, but at the same time you are not helping the situation at all when you are offering money that someone will just pass by and you are making 1m+ euros in your pocket a year, and then the only way to keep profiting is to steal a bit on tax and of course not fully insure your employees. AWFUL system!

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#42

Post by gt2 »

vfc1 wrote: post #31
sametmax wrote: post #11

And if you think it's bad, it's even worse in Europe. Taking the French example: I'm an freelancer, but I used to have a contract with an American company. They gave me 3x the salary most of my French colleagues would get, while keeping the exact same social advantages (they paid me through a French branch). However, to them, the salary was twice lower than what they would have paid for the same guy in the Valley. No…

I've worked around in a couple of european countries and I can confirm that the freelance rates for software development today are the same or typically less than in 2001. The software developer golden age was in the mid-nineties here in Europe, and then the rates and salaries have stagnated (but not the inflation). Also, the contractual conditions are getting worse. We are now many times offered contracts with a ter…

How is that enforced on the employer side, keeping employees in their contract?

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#43

Post by baxtr »

lkrubner wrote: post #4

It’s interesting how much momentum there is in these processes. After several decades of big wage gains, during the 1940s, 1950s, and 1960s, the nominal increases could not be stopped, even as the economy weakened in the 1970s and 1980s. Back then all the wage cuts had to done through inflation. Nowadays there is no inflation, and no momentum to restart wage increases. This part of the article says it right: “””The u…

Which is somewhat great because if they don’t pay well startups can exploit opportunities that open up as a consequence.

However, my experience lately from Germany is that large companies are becoming more and more popular for developers. This was also reflected in a recent HN discussion

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17286939

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#44

Post by rohitb91 »

lkrubner wrote: post #4

It’s interesting how much momentum there is in these processes. After several decades of big wage gains, during the 1940s, 1950s, and 1960s, the nominal increases could not be stopped, even as the economy weakened in the 1970s and 1980s. Back then all the wage cuts had to done through inflation. Nowadays there is no inflation, and no momentum to restart wage increases. This part of the article says it right: “””The u…

If profits don't grow or profits don't reach or surpass expectations, board members get fired. If board members are threatened, management is threatened. If management is threatened, workers are threatened.

Profits change by increasing revenue and/or decreasing costs.

Wages are an obvious way of optimizing wages further.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#45

Post by maxerickson »

Waterluvian wrote: post #39

I worked for a Canadian company that's absolutely hemmoraging talent because they refuse to pay well. I'm now paid about 50% more to work remotely for a US company in an environment that is far far more fitting of my life goals of being with my kids as they grow up. It's beyond bizarre to watch them continue to refuse to pay anyone properly despite their imminent collapse.

Are they selling into a market that pays enough for them to raise wages?

I'm not defending them there, just wondering if the imminent part of the collapse might be external.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#46

Post by kinkstone »

"....As with any addiction, this process produces short-term euphoria, reflected in share prices, but long-term pathology, reflected in income inequality, poverty and social unrest."

Addiction is right, but it's not limited to wages in a corporate environment. The same addiction in our overly-concentrated power structure is driving the decisions to underfund schools, infrastructure, healthcare, etc. The same "me-first" philosophy produced the recent tax law that will add billions to the deficit in the coming years.

So frustrating.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#47

Post by taejo »

pmontra wrote: post #22
CapacitorSet wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a really weak commitment, considering that they had 2 years to comply with GDPR.

Maybe they don't care about European readers. I'm European but they are from Los Angeles so I don't complain. Would I comply with a US law if all my customers were in the EU? To be fair, they're probably blocking also US readers occasionally or permanently in Europe. They could be annoyed by that.

> Maybe they don't care about European readers. I'm European but they are from Los Angeles so I don't complain. Would I comply with a US law if all my customers were in the EU?

But they say, "We are engaged on the issue and committed to looking at options that support our full range of digital offerings to the EU market." Surely a company wouldn't lie on the Internet?

> To be fair, they're probably blocking also US readers occasionally or permanently in Europe. They could be annoyed by that.

I am. I'm a registered voter in LA county living in the EU, so I consider it pretty important to stay informed of LA, California and US issues, and the LA Times used to be an important information source for me.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#48

Post by vfc1 »

gt2 wrote: post #42
vfc1 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked around in a couple of european countries and I can confirm that the freelance rates for software development today are the same or typically less than in 2001. The software developer golden age was in the mid-nineties here in Europe, and then the rates and salaries have stagnated (but not the inflation). Also, the contractual conditions are getting worse. We are now many times offered contracts with a ter…

How is that enforced on the employer side, keeping employees in their contract?

They can terminate your freelance contract with a one week notice, but on the other hand, we can't terminate the contract on our side under any circumstances.

All we can do is wait for the contract to finish and then not renew it. Its perfectly legal, a lawyer told me.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#49

Post by beobab »

gt2 wrote: post #42
vfc1 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked around in a couple of european countries and I can confirm that the freelance rates for software development today are the same or typically less than in 2001. The software developer golden age was in the mid-nineties here in Europe, and then the rates and salaries have stagnated (but not the inflation). Also, the contractual conditions are getting worse. We are now many times offered contracts with a ter…

How is that enforced on the employer side, keeping employees in their contract?

An Englishman's word is his bond. ;)

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#50

Post by Markoff »

yeah i work currently as contractor around 30 hours per month from home for Chinese company without any commuting anytime i want to cover expenses of my family

on the other hand i could work 160-170 hours per month for local EU employer and get like double salary (a bit more with bigger retirement savings and paid vacation)

somehow i am not rushing to get stable job and get employed locally to work five times more plus wasted time on commuting (so make it six times more hours wasted on work) to earn double salary

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