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U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

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Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#41
post #6

Does anybody know if Theranos got started with at least an idea how to accomplish what they wanted to do? From what I have heard in interviews they started with the thought "Doing xxx would be super useful" but didn't have an approach for accomplishing this but instead took in money and tried to figure it out. It's like me saying "An antimatter drive would revolutionize space exploration" and starting to collect mone…

> It's like me saying "An antimatter drive would revolutionize space exploration" and starting to collect money but without even the faintest idea how to produce one In America, it's perfectly legal to say "I'm going to make an antimatter drive; give me a million dollars." It's illegal to say "I have a working antimatter drive prototype; give me a million dollars." Holmes and Balwani did the latter.

>It's illegal to say "I have a working antimatter drive prototype; give me a million dollars." Holmes and Balwani did the latter.

It's only illegal if you don't actually have one.

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#42
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My question is: Did they have a prototype or at least a concept?

From "Bad Blood": they had a prototype called Gluebot which used a robot arm to do standard tests involving a pipette autonomously. However, their tests (using blood collected at Walgreens) were done on "hacked" (altered to cope with much smaller amounts of blood -- by increasing dilution) Siemens blood-testing machines.

IIRC from the book, Gluebot was actually the prototype that eventually became the Theranos Edison.

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#43
I have been in this exact place before. For the two of them, this day will be just about the worst of their lives.

This is ordinarily when hard-core criminals are taken into custody. If their experience was like mine, they had to show up in front of a magistrate with their lawyers, plead not guilty, then go to a dungeon for about 30 minutes while they get handcuffed, fingerprinted, mugshotted, and DNA-swabbed. Then, off they go until trial. It's basically like being free, but you have to stay out of trouble and report all contacts with law enforcement.

Being rich (or from money), they won't have to worry about federal defenders or CJA representation, which wouldn't be near as bad as dealing with a state-funded public defender. There's a small chance they'll have to go this route anyway, since the government can snatch the money in dispute and block you from spending your ill-gotten gains on high-priced legal representation.

Don't let the "sticker price" fool you. They're not going to have to serve consecutive 20-year terms for what they're accused of, even if they take it to trial and get found guilty.

They will probably get their first plea offers in about a year. Most people take the plea. In the event they refuse to plead guilty, trial will probably take about 2-3 years from today.

Holmes will be offered, I'm guessing, about 6-9 months and a joint-and-several "money judgment" (restitution + forfeiture). Balwani, about 5 years and a joint-and-several "money judgment". This may be a package deal too, so Holmes may not be able to take it if Balwani won't. Why the discrepancy? The 28th amendment hasn't been ratified yet.

Before my experience with this world, I would have been eager to join in the collective bloodlust, with the pitchfork-and-torch crowd clamoring for these overprivileged defendants to sit through a trial and rot in prison. Take it from me: I wouldn't put my worst enemy through even just the trial.

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#45
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's like me saying "An antimatter drive would revolutionize space exploration" and starting to collect money but without even the faintest idea how to produce one In America, it's perfectly legal to say "I'm going to make an antimatter drive; give me a million dollars." It's illegal to say "I have a working antimatter drive prototype; give me a million dollars." Holmes and Balwani did the latter.

My question is: Did they have a prototype or at least a concept?

They did. They had two devices, the "Edison" and the "MiniLab".

The Edison was intended to run a full panel of blood tests, both chemical and immunological assays, off a finger stick of blood. It was also intended to allow Theranos to function as its own lab.

The Minilab was intended to run a full panel of blood tests I believe off a larger venous sample, and was expected to be marketed to existing labs (at this point, Theranos had been forbidden from operating its own labs).

In its own labs, Theranos made minimal use of the Edison, which was unreliable and supported only a few tests. Rather, they're accused of taking finger-stick draws, diluting them, and then feeding them into hacked-up adapters for COTS lab machines.

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After the company launched professionals in the medical testing said it was impossible. I believe it was even posted to HN. They stated it was impossible to get the results they would get from the amount of blood given.

For reference, here's the very first HN submission about Theranos in 2013: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6349349

Interesting. Skinming through the comments, very little criticism, everyone in awe. Only way down there is someone stating how hard it is to get regulatory approval.

I guess that‘s HN still in full fanboy mode, before all those startups started to display their dark sides.

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#47

I have been in this exact place before. For the two of them, this day will be just about the worst of their lives. This is ordinarily when hard-core criminals are taken into custody. If their experience was like mine, they had to show up in front of a magistrate with their lawyers, plead not guilty, then go to a dungeon for about 30 minutes while they get handcuffed, fingerprinted, mugshotted, and DNA-swabbed. Then,…

Given the forfeiture terms at the end of the indictment, it looks like they'll both be zeroed out if found guilty (which seems like a near certainty), regardless of how long they're kept in custody.

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#48

"The defendants are charged with two counts of conspiracy to commit wire fraud and nine counts of wire fraud." WHY DO THIS. Each count of wire fraud is 20 years in prison [1]. If 9 counts are proven you are looking at a 180 years in prison. (life sentence). You are better off doing 2nd degree murder 3 times - at least it is a challenge to prove. Proving wire fraud sounds pretty simple - they just read a bunch of emai…

I think that people can succumb to their egoes, similar to why some celebrities commit sexual crimes or are know for doing unthinkably rude actions. Something changes in people who acquire enough power and have the right combination of exceptional drive and sociopathy - which I think can incubate in an environment where they're in control over everyone and never told "no". It's the same mechanism in narcissistic people who hurt others and deny it and even turn it around and play the victim. Somehow they believe in a different version of reality. In Holmes' case I doubt she ever believed she was perpetrating a crime.

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#49
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's like me saying "An antimatter drive would revolutionize space exploration" and starting to collect money but without even the faintest idea how to produce one In America, it's perfectly legal to say "I'm going to make an antimatter drive; give me a million dollars." It's illegal to say "I have a working antimatter drive prototype; give me a million dollars." Holmes and Balwani did the latter.

> It's illegal to say "I have a working antimatter drive prototype; give me a million dollars." Holmes and Balwani did the latter. It's only illegal if you don't actually have one.

You also have to be aware that you don't have one, for what it's worth.

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#50
post #20

Wait, what?! Ramesh Balwani was Ms. Holmes's boyfriend? I don't recall seeing that covered anywhere else before.

Has ANYONE been able to successfully dig up anything online related to Ramesh Balwani? Trying to read more on him...
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