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DRM done right: Puppygames

puppygames.net

41–50 of 59 posts

Re: DRM done right: Puppygames

#41
WAAAAAAAAYYYYYY too longwinded. This isn't a marketing message aimed at customers, it's a bit of clever design aimed at the likes of us. It's still massively inconvenient, in that I have to understand their ridiculously complicated scheme in order to understand what I can do with my game. As a rule, people who get angry about DRM aren't the kind of people you'd want as customers even if they did pay for software, and the average user is likely to be more put off by a complex permissive scheme than a simple restrictive scheme. Customers generally don't mind big, bold-face caveats, it's the small print that worries them.

All this is rather beside the point - according to the numbers in that post, they're selling 20 copies a month. If you're writing good, attractive games but making so little money, you have much bigger priorities than your DRM scheme. Spend an hour implementing an off-the-shelf watermarking system to give yourself basic legal recourse against wholesale piracy, then get on with the job of selling.

If this is just a hobby then fair enough, I have no right to argue, but if this is supposed to be a business then I really despair.

Re: DRM done right: Puppygames

#42
post #39

That's nice and all, but most games have much more invasive DRM yet they still get pirated. What stops someone from hacking the game to not display their name and to also never check in with the server?

I think their point is "we've left it loose because we trust you".

They say their demos will automatically become the full version if they can't find a Puppygames server on first run. You don't _need_ to hack the game, if you're so inclined to get it for free they've made it easy for you.

They're encouraging a culture of trust between you and them, in the hope you'll thank them for it and actually pay for the game. Not a bad tactic considering some of the piracy figures indie devs have cited. At the end of the day they realise it's more beneficial to keep their paying customers onside rather than slightly inconveniencing those who are going to pirate it anyway.

Re: DRM done right: Puppygames

#43
post #13

sad they say they aren't doing so well: "It means if our DRM system breaks, like for example our server melts down with the floods of sales we unfortunately aren’t getting, or Puppygames goes completely bust because you buggers aren’t buying nearly enough games for us to survive ," ... " Hint: you’re not :("

Well, if they aren't exaggerating with that 5% number. Then it means they are making around $270 per month. Kind of sad compared with minecraft that made $20k or something in a day.

I'd say Minecraft's more the exception here, not the rule.

Or, turning your comment on its head, Minecraft's income looks absolutely amazing compared to this!

Re: DRM done right: Puppygames

#44

WAAAAAAAAYYYYYY too longwinded. This isn't a marketing message aimed at customers, it's a bit of clever design aimed at the likes of us. It's still massively inconvenient, in that I have to understand their ridiculously complicated scheme in order to understand what I can do with my game. As a rule, people who get angry about DRM aren't the kind of people you'd want as customers even if they did pay for software, and…

> according to the numbers in that post, they're selling 20 copies a month.

please don't jump to conclusions.

that's monthly salary per person, which in turn is how much they choose to pay themselves from the company's revenues, after monthly expenses, which I would assume include server and equipment costs among many other things.

Re: DRM done right: Puppygames

#45
The tl;dr bullet points:

1) Sharing with friends and family is allowed, and encouraged

2) Your e-mail is your registration key - when you try to activate on another computer, an activation link is sent to you via e-mail, and you can do this 10 times. After that, you've just got to ask Puppygames for more activations and they'll almost always approve them (I assume the main exception would be if someone was passing around a registration all over the Internet, which is pretty easy to notice if it happens).

3) If anything screws up re: the DRM system, it errs in your favor. In particular, if you haven't registered when you boot the game and you can't reach the server, it will assume that you're good to go, and turn the demo into the full game. It will never shut you down because it can't phone home.

4) The only way the full game gets disabled is if the server tells it that you've asked for a refund (which they always honor).

5) They're aware that 3) and 4) are very easy to game (block the Internet connection once you get your refund), and that's fine, they prefer not to hassle legit users unduly.

IMO, this strikes a pretty good balance - it tends to err on the side of the user while still throwing up a tiny barrier to piracy (pretty much just enough to thwart the casual pirate). To do more is not worth it, because people that will go through the trouble of bypassing the registration process on the demo would probably just find a cracked version anyways if it was any more difficult to do.

Also, I should mention that the demos that Puppygames provides are quite substantial chunks of the full versions - if you've played enough of the demo to reach its limits, then chances are you've been liking the game enough to warrant buying it. I think this is pretty important, it's probably the main reason they have so few refund requests.

Finally, I encourage everyone to check out the game itself at http://www.puppygames.net/revenge-of-the-titans, too - Cas and Chaz have always put together really polished and fun games, and it's a shame that they haven't been able to figure out how to sell more of them (Cas was not joking at all with the self-deprecating stuff about people not buying the games, they really are only selling a handful of copies every month). FWIW, I have no relation to either of them, I'm plugging them because I've always liked their games and would hate to see them give up.

Re: DRM done right: Puppygames

#46
post #8

"Firewall Revenge of the Titans so it can’t ever contact Puppygames and get your totally free full game" Using DRM at all in such a setup looks quite pointless to me.

The main goal of DRM is to increase revenue, be it invasive DRM or less restrictive DRM. Invasive DRM has irritated customers and caused loss of sales. These guys are trying to create trust and goodwill with customers with a less restrictive DRM. It's more of a marketing tactic.

It's actually a pretty good approach, admittedly lot of work for the developers.

Re: DRM done right: Puppygames

#47

WAAAAAAAAYYYYYY too longwinded. This isn't a marketing message aimed at customers, it's a bit of clever design aimed at the likes of us. It's still massively inconvenient, in that I have to understand their ridiculously complicated scheme in order to understand what I can do with my game. As a rule, people who get angry about DRM aren't the kind of people you'd want as customers even if they did pay for software, and…

It's still massively inconvenient, in that I have to understand their ridiculously complicated scheme in order to understand what I can do with my game.

Eh, as you mentioned, this post is aimed at people like us - to the normal end user that's not trying to play the full version for free, there's nothing complex at all. You just download the game, and enter your e-mail address. If you've already bought the thing, then you just have to click a link in an e-mail, otherwise you either play the demo or buy the thing, no surprises. Even sharing with friends is easy, you just enter your e-mail address and it works fine after you click the link.

The other details involve edge cases; perhaps Cas will at some point release some stats, and tell us (for instance) how many people actually activate more than 10 copies of the game. I can't imagine it's very many, and for everyone else, the scheme is trivial.

If you're writing good, attractive games but making so little money, you have much bigger priorities than your DRM scheme.

I'd tend to agree with this. The level of polish in their games makes it surprising that they're doing so few sales, so there's probably a lot that could be done marketing-wise to improve things. Of course, I have no idea what these things are, myself. :)

I'm sure Cas would be open to suggestions on this front, I know he's aware of this thread, so by all means, fire away if you've got advice...

Re: DRM done right: Puppygames

#48
post #39

That's nice and all, but most games have much more invasive DRM yet they still get pirated. What stops someone from hacking the game to not display their name and to also never check in with the server?

I think their point is "we've left it loose because we trust you". They say their demos will automatically become the full version if they can't find a Puppygames server on first run. You don't _need_ to hack the game, if you're so inclined to get it for free they've made it easy for you. They're encouraging a culture of trust between you and them, in the hope you'll thank them for it and actually pay for the game. N…

Hey, I'm totally down with that attitude.

My point is that if your DRM is going to be so minimal anyway, why bother? It doesn't seem like this approach is likely to convince very many people to buy the software who wouldn't otherwise, and it surely takes time and resources to set up and run.

Re: DRM done right: Puppygames

#49
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if they aren't exaggerating with that 5% number. Then it means they are making around $270 per month. Kind of sad compared with minecraft that made $20k or something in a day.

I'd say Minecraft's more the exception here, not the rule. Or, turning your comment on its head, Minecraft's income looks absolutely amazing compared to this!

Yes, this is far closer to the common indie experience than minecraft.

Re: DRM done right: Puppygames

#50
hello everyone! This is Cas from Puppygames. It's been very interesting reading this thread (thanks ewj for posting!)

A few straight from the horses mouth facts:

I sat down and worked out what our revenues are, and they work out as $750/month over the last 7 years. Out of that, we pay for hosting, advertising, accountancy, and tax, leaving about $400/month and then Chaz and I split the remainder. Chaz just about scrapes a meagre existence in Spain. I live in the UK though so I have to keep on doing a day job (I've got a family to support). So up till now Puppygames has always been part-time! It'd be nice to do it full time.

If you're wondering why we bother at all, well, it's because it's actually a monumental pain in the arse to release two versions of every game - a demo and a full version. It's loads easier just to do a full version which can be unlocked. That's all our "DRM" is, really - just a really simple way of doing unlockable demos which won't go wrong and is practically impossible to not understand.

Also, anyone who thinks that it was a "lot of work" developing the system should probably know... it wasn't. It's really trivial stuff, and most of the hard bits are built in to Java anyway like the public/private key encryption. We're already working our little fingers off making the game, can't afford to spend any more time on unlocking schemes!

It really is utterly trivial for anyone with half a brain to defeat, and even crack and release. It's Java - any fool with JAD and Eclipse can rip it out. But what we're getting at here is... what's the point? The demos are lengthy, the games are cheap, the rights we give you along with the games are exactly the rights you would expect to have and want. They're exactly the rights I expect and want from things I buy, anyway.

Lots of piratey types give all sorts of feeble excuses as to why they get dodgy copies of things but at the end of the day we basically addressed every single one of them except one which is that the games cost too much and you wanted them anyway! Which we're figuring out how to address right now. We tried in the past reducing the prices of the games but discovered they made even less money.

Any suggestions?

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