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Too Clever by Half

epsilontheory.com

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Re: Too Clever by Half

#41

Post by tzahola »

ItsMe000001 wrote: post #29
anonytrary wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is probably a highdea, but what if coyotes are having a tough time in the wild and they are smart enough to see how we treat dogs, so they are actually doing what wolves did thousands of years ago by slowly, cautiously edging their way into human society in hopes that they can integrate with us? They aren't particularly hostile, they seem to just want to survive. There have been maybe a couple hundred reported c…

> in hopes that they can integrate with us I think you can stop right there. The dog thing happened not because dog "wanted" to be with humans. Dogs were clueless about what happened, it just did. The explanation is on a higher level, not in their desires, not even in the desires of the humans who participated in most of the dog domestication (even if some of them may have thought about it, but by then it was already…

>not even in the desires of the humans who participated in most of the dog domestication

[citation needed]

Re: Too Clever by Half

#42

Post by simias »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #22

>> When the dog gets close to the wire, the receiver starts to beep, and when the dog gets all the way to the “fence” boundary, the receiver generates a small electric zap. I know, I know … it’s negative reinforcement and it’s a shock collar and all that. Don’t care. It’s fantastic for us and our dogs. That's disgusting.

I had the same initial reaction but then again I don't have a dog nor do I have a large enough estate to ever need such a device anyway. Clearly I don't have the data to weigh in on this issue. That being said if you consider that having dogs in a very large outdoors environment with a colar that zaps them (after warning them) if they stray too far is abuse, then isn't keeping the same dog in a small cramped urban flat much, much worse? If I was the dog I know what I'd choose.

That being said I think if I was in their position (and again, I'm very far from it) I think I'd prefer having an actual physical fence.

Re: Too Clever by Half

#43

Post by 80386 »

When I was in school, there were the people who seemed smart and the people who seemed like they worked hard.

The people who seemed smart won the minigames. They got good grades with little effort. But somehow, they ended up with no institutional support -- in fact, the school hated them. Eventually one of the teachers (who was visibly insecure about her own intelligence and competence) cooked up a nonsense pretext to get some of them expelled.

One kid's parents brought a legal challenge, the school settled for a year's worth of college tuition, and last I heard his parents had withdrawn him from college to pack him off to rehab for heroin addiction. The only other expellee I've heard from left the country, never to return.

The people who seemed like they worked hard didn't always get the best grades. But the institution went out of its way to make life easier for them, and they're all doing alright now.

Re: Too Clever by Half

#44

Post by jaggederest »

ItsMe000001 wrote: post #31
AlexCoventry wrote: post #7

I'm curious about what people appreciate in this essay. In the end, I don't think I learned anything valuable from it.

That you can be clever and win and still lose, and someone less smart may actually do better. I ignored the second half (read it though) because I thought it was quite a stretch from the coyotes to financial instruments. Actually, it's all quite a stretch as far as the details go, while the general idea that I stated at the beginning is true but not exactly original.

I think the take away is basically that you're optimizing for the the sum of all series, which means that focusing on winning either the battle or the war by itself is fruitless and counterproductive.

I agree, in a lot of ways, I prefer to make situations win-win because it leads to better long term outcomes. It's as much about framing as it is about succeeding in the short or long term.

Re: Too Clever by Half

#45

Post by golergka »

ItsMe000001 wrote: post #29
anonytrary wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is probably a highdea, but what if coyotes are having a tough time in the wild and they are smart enough to see how we treat dogs, so they are actually doing what wolves did thousands of years ago by slowly, cautiously edging their way into human society in hopes that they can integrate with us? They aren't particularly hostile, they seem to just want to survive. There have been maybe a couple hundred reported c…

> in hopes that they can integrate with us I think you can stop right there. The dog thing happened not because dog "wanted" to be with humans. Dogs were clueless about what happened, it just did. The explanation is on a higher level, not in their desires, not even in the desires of the humans who participated in most of the dog domestication (even if some of them may have thought about it, but by then it was already…

How can you talk about these things with such a high degree of certainty?

I've read different theories about dog domestication. All of them have some strong and some weak points. All of them don't have enough evidence to be taken as the only source of truth.

Re: Too Clever by Half

#46

Post by dibujante »

Kiro wrote: post #36
vpontis wrote: post #14

I really enjoyed this article. Summary Coyotes are too clever because they know that people shaking jars full of coins can’t hurt them. Thus the animal control patrol has to get called and when they don’t shoo, the animal control person who loves animals has to shoot the coyote. Coyotes are winning the mini-game of each human interaction, but they are losing the meta-game of what society will do if coyotes aren’t sca…

I also realized this which made me game the whole schooling system. I didn't study and had a poor attendance but still got an award for the being the school's best student. Pretty crazy when I think about it. Suffice to say, my strategy didn't work very well in university.

High-five, fellow "burned by needing to do real work in university" high schooler :(

Re: Too Clever by Half

#48

Post by sgt101 »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #20
plankers wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FamilICO -- pegged to the net worth of the world's poor. Not sure I'd buy that coin.

If BLM and the feminists are right, the coin is undervalued. What is the probability that they are right?

Feminist here. I have a plan : we will make money by paying a significant percentage of western government officials in the new "poor coin".

Re: Too Clever by Half

#49

Post by mcv »

dibujante wrote: post #46
Kiro wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also realized this which made me game the whole schooling system. I didn't study and had a poor attendance but still got an award for the being the school's best student. Pretty crazy when I think about it. Suffice to say, my strategy didn't work very well in university.

High-five, fellow "burned by needing to do real work in university" high schooler :(

Same here. Once I figured out that I didn't really have to do any homework in high school, and wasn't even required to do so in university, I was doomed.

I'm now trying to teach my son that just learning to do the work, even if it's boring, is the real skill you need. But he's too focused on winning every mini-game.

Re: Too Clever by Half

#50

Post by salvar »

ItsMe000001 wrote: post #29
anonytrary wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is probably a highdea, but what if coyotes are having a tough time in the wild and they are smart enough to see how we treat dogs, so they are actually doing what wolves did thousands of years ago by slowly, cautiously edging their way into human society in hopes that they can integrate with us? They aren't particularly hostile, they seem to just want to survive. There have been maybe a couple hundred reported c…

> in hopes that they can integrate with us I think you can stop right there. The dog thing happened not because dog "wanted" to be with humans. Dogs were clueless about what happened, it just did. The explanation is on a higher level, not in their desires, not even in the desires of the humans who participated in most of the dog domestication (even if some of them may have thought about it, but by then it was already…

Can you source any of your statements about what precisely happened and who desired what thousands of years ago?
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