> due the age of the battery in the controller, it has the potential to overheat when left charging for extended periods of time This is some argument on Sonos' part! The reason why the battery in the CR100 is "old" is because Sonos chose to build a device with a non-replaceable battery!! If they're so concerned about safety why don't they offer to replace the batteries (for a reasonable fee)??
Save the CR100
41–50 of 67 posts
Re: Save the CR100
#42I bought my first Sonos elements in 2006, and used to love them. I still use Sonos, for lack of a better option (?) but have come to hate it, the devices, the company, the whole "ecosystem", with the heat of a thousand suns. It updates constantly, you can't ever refuse an update, updates stop the system just when you need to use it, change the UI for no reason, and every update breaks something. Every single iteratio…
Re: Save the CR100
#43Context: the new firmware upgrade for Sonos speakers will drop support for the CR100 controller. http://www.techradar.com/news/sonos-finally-kills-off-cr100-... -- I have to wonder why. Planned obsolescence is an obvious answer, but if the new "standard" methods for controlling the speakers are smartphones or Alexa, it doesn't seem like they gain much from the switch. Is the protocol used by the CR100 that much of a…
Re: Save the CR100
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think what we're trying to rail against here is that why should 13, or whatever, years be an acceptable figure. My car is older than that. My toaster over is old, I've had CRT TVs that were much older before they died. I'm gonna go with a big fat juicy 'No!' here. We ought to be building for longevity and serviceability. Don't end support, just open it up. Publish the relevant source code, documentation etc. We sho…
It’s an accessory. If we were talking about the speakers themselves, I wouldn be more sympathetic, but in this case I’m just not. The reality is that the nature of connected devices makes things different. This isn’t the same as a CRT TV (but also, look at how much it costs and how difficult it is get parts for a CRT in 2018). And like it or not, your next car won’t be as repairable as your current 15 year old car, b…
Noting that the automotive market is increasingly opening itself up to the kind of obsolescence problems the software industry has never bothered to come to grips with (indeed, is to some extent actively against solving, from incentives at the business level to personal disinclination on the part of most programmers) isn't exactly a resounding counterpoint to worries about how software problems are affecting less crucial hardware devices.
> Legit question: how long should any company/service be required to add backward compatibility to old, obsolete products?
There's a point in here that's legit: perpetuity is a high bar, most products don't last forever. But there's also an extent to which this question is largely a dodge of the real question: what is "old"? Why do we accept or feel forced to accept a decade or shorter timeline?
> we should be building for longevity and serviceability, but that isn’t always possible. The platform and stack the CR100 was built on is not modern and cannot be easily maintained.
You know how we talk about code smells? (Or maybe we don't anymore, it was always a weird term and maybe it's so early 10s now). Pretty sure the word "modern" when it comes to software should be understood as a "thought smell."
Every platform/stack any software is built on will be "not modern" by software standards in well under a decade, and is quite likely to grow more difficult to maintain over time. An acknowledgement of the value of longevity and serviceability doesn't mean much while implicitly accepting software-related value choices that mean longevity and serviceability remain not only difficult to attain but difficult to conceive of.
> And even if the software was open source (which would be great), that doesn’t change the fact that if the endpoints on the services it relies on change, nothing can be done.
If the software were open source, when endpoints change, the threshold for continuing utility is whether there's a developer out there somewhere who cares enough to work on it. Or could be made to care by consumers bearing cash.
Re: Save the CR100
#45I’m against bricking devices arbitrarily, but this product was more than 12 years old and hadn’t been sold since 2009 (I had one in 2006 when I was still in college and Sonos’s killer feature for me was that it worked with the original streaming music service, Rhapsody). Frankly, giving customers $100 credit seems kind to me. Plus the CR200 still works and they don’t have plans to brick it, so there is that. I feel f…
That's the thing with streaming devices: they are dependent on external support for basic functionality, and manufacturers can arbitrarily decide (or be forced) to cut that support arbitrarily.
Plus the CR200 still works and they don’t have plans to brick it
You can't be serious.
Re: Save the CR100
#46I'm getting really sick of appliances depending on smartphone apps, they're brittle as hell and have no longevity as OS updates kill them off (and eventually as mobile OS's die completely). I had a right faff on finding a IP security cam that didn't use the bloody awful onVIF protocol and would connect to a network without a mobile app to configure it. I take care of remote access myself, so I don't need the "feature…
Do you mean something like https://home-assistant.io ?
Re: Save the CR100
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm an FSF supporter (technically FSFE), but I think we should be careful about these claims. It's not like open source projects never drop features. You could say "yeah, but they wouldn't be forced to upgrade" - but neither are the users in this case, as the reply says. What the users here want is to continue getting the new features and fixes of the new versions of firmware, while keeping support for the CR100. Eve…
With free software no one can shut down a service like they are doing. A product will continue to function and it will continue to receive updates as long as there is enough interest by the open source community in that product. Let's take for example Android smartphone, there are some old smartphone that thanks to the community are still updated to the latest version of the OS, on the other side when Apple say it's…
All you wrote regarding Android is true, and that's why as I said I support the FSF and Free Software in general, all I'm saying is that you can't take that community for granted. Maybe someone would appear to re-add support for the CR100 to the new firmware - or maybe nobody would.
Re: Save the CR100
#48Any product that relies on a manufacturer-only provided online service of any kind to provide its functionality, will simply stop functioning whenever the manufacturer feels like it (or goes out of business, etc). Oh, and it will also most likely not care about your privacy, but that's a given these days.
Also, any product relying on a closed-source smartphone app (using proprietary protocols to communicate with the product) will also become increasingly annoying as time passes. At some point, the app won't get updates anymore, and some time after that you'll have to keep a special old smartphone around just for the purpose of running that app. Sounds great, eh?
On the other hand, many 30, 40, 50 years old electronics products still work fine today, and can be used, as they were self-contained, and wholly owned (and fixable) by the user.
p.s. the fact that ageing batteries are cited as reason by Sonos also further shows what a stupid idea it is to put non-replaceable batteries into products. I really hope that regulation will finally end that practice soon.
Re: Save the CR100
#49As far as I understand, it all works in the local network. It shouldn't be too hard to create a server to translate its calls to the new api (that the smartphone app uses), no? edit: I don't understand why you'd down-vote this. I'd love to correct it if I said something blatantly wrong, just tell me. Also, I wasn't dismissing this as a non-problem, but rather questioning if there'd be an easy solution. My parents are…
I'm sure all of this is reverse engineerable, but it might be less work to build everything from scratch :)
Re: Save the CR100
#50I’m against bricking devices arbitrarily, but this product was more than 12 years old and hadn’t been sold since 2009 (I had one in 2006 when I was still in college and Sonos’s killer feature for me was that it worked with the original streaming music service, Rhapsody). Frankly, giving customers $100 credit seems kind to me. Plus the CR200 still works and they don’t have plans to brick it, so there is that. I feel f…
If every tech device over 12 years old I have stopped working tomorrow, I would be in a heap of trouble. That's the thing with streaming devices: they are dependent on external support for basic functionality, and manufacturers can arbitrarily decide (or be forced) to cut that support arbitrarily. Plus the CR200 still works and they don’t have plans to brick it You can't be serious.
The speakers still work. There is an app.
I would agree if it were the speakers. It’s not. It’s a remote that hasn’t been sold in almost ten years.