Live data from Hacker News

'Our minds can be hijacked': tech insiders who fear a smartphone dystopia

theguardian.com

41–50 of 411 posts

Re: 'Our minds can be hijacked': tech insiders who fear a smartphone dystopia

#41
post #4

Does anyone see an analogy with highly processed, sugary foods? Highly addictive, thought to be miracles of convenience, but ultimately detrimental when consumed in excess, and now we are starting to realise that and demand better. I wonder if society will go through the same rejection phase with attention-seeking media consumption. Or maybe those who grow up with it will be better able to control themselves.

Our phones, their glitziness, and the way they captivate definitely hijack the mind's operations when it's saturated by them.

It's a rough solution but simply dampening the strength of the signal is one way to manage our minds.

That's why I'm moving towards a smartwatch with cellular. I know I need to be connected, but to specific people, not to the information highway. (More information cul de sacs.)

I'm excited about the kind of lifestyle patterns we can design that would be more kind to ourselves but not any less performant.

Re: 'Our minds can be hijacked': tech insiders who fear a smartphone dystopia

#42
post #31
post #13

There's the well-known anecdote that Steve Jobs didn't let his own kids use the iPad.[1] If there was a tech equivalent of "don't get high on your own supply" , that was it. [1] https://www.google.com/search?q=steve+jobs+doesn%27t+let+kid...

I mean Steve Jobs tried to treat his completely curable pancreatic cancer, which was caught early, with alternative medicine and diet changes. The guy was a genius at some things, but not everything.

When did pancreatic cancer get a reputation for being curable? I was under the impression that it is one of the most fatal cancers.

Re: 'Our minds can be hijacked': tech insiders who fear a smartphone dystopia

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

David Foster Wallace had the same belief about TV 20 years ago. He seemed more addicted to it than the average bear, more along the lines of how you see people tethered to smartphones today. He very much saw TV as candy - sweet, addictive, not sustaining, and unhealthy without moderation. He talked about it in multiple places, but Although of Course You End Up Becoming Yourself (an interview) discusses it a lot. http…

also the central theme of infinite jest... right? that book was confusing.

Very much so, at least one of them. “The Entertainment” was sufficiently addicting to effectively zombify characters, now fulfilled by the stereotype of people that float across busy streets without raising their eyes from their phones. The repeated parallels to drug use and escape therefrom were none-too-subtly interspersed with The Entertainment for a reason.

Also, the literary broken narrative effected by story-length footnotes that had story-length endnotes imitates the short/shattered attention span experience of living that DFW was already able to feel and express—and Infinite Jest was published over twenty years ago.

I escaped into Infinite Jest to survive a period of deep depression, denial, and directionlessness, so that shattered consciousness was pretty easy to relate to at the time.

Re: 'Our minds can be hijacked': tech insiders who fear a smartphone dystopia

#44

Does anyone think that Hacker News fits the bill of addictiveness? Or is HN different than Facebook/Reddit/Twitter for some reason?

HN is different because, if you play your cards right, there will be no obligation to additional, subsequent behavior modification based on your actions, and minimal (if any) real life social consequences related to your participation.

Facebook and Twitter are notorious for producing disastrous results among individuals careless with their identity. Reddit permits the free creation of pseudonyms, but the material is less engaging and currated with less rigor.

I wouldn’t rate HN as “addictive” since there aren’t any real barriers to ignoring the site, and it lacks the kind of reach other sites have in “finding you.” This is to say that the usage patterns of the other sites you mention, saturate social circles so thoroughly, that it’s hard to not hear them mentioned in daily conversation.

You may prefer HN, and it may fill certain gaps in regular daily activity, alleviating boredom to an extent, but if you find it infectous, that’s merely a reflection of the intellectual personas that get moderated into your attention based on merit.

Is stimulating conversation addictive? Is reading material deleterious? At some point the buck has to stop with the individual’s own judgement.

Re: 'Our minds can be hijacked': tech insiders who fear a smartphone dystopia

#45
post #4

Does anyone see an analogy with highly processed, sugary foods? Highly addictive, thought to be miracles of convenience, but ultimately detrimental when consumed in excess, and now we are starting to realise that and demand better. I wonder if society will go through the same rejection phase with attention-seeking media consumption. Or maybe those who grow up with it will be better able to control themselves.

David Foster Wallace had the same belief about TV 20 years ago. He seemed more addicted to it than the average bear, more along the lines of how you see people tethered to smartphones today. He very much saw TV as candy - sweet, addictive, not sustaining, and unhealthy without moderation. He talked about it in multiple places, but Although of Course You End Up Becoming Yourself (an interview) discusses it a lot. http…

In Pat Cadigan's anthology of short works "Patterns", she included this introduction to her short story[1] with the same name:

> Television will achieve its apotheosis when it is interactive.

> Of course, some people think they have that now. For some people, TV reality is as much of a reality as what they move through most of the day. I remember listening to two people I used to work with discussing the horrible burden a character on a TV series would have to bear for causing someone's death in a fire. These were not uneducated or isolated people; they had simply been drawn in so far, they were projecting the characters well beyond the end of the show -- indeed, beyond the life of the series itself. And we've all heard amusing stories about actors who play soap opera villains suddenly attacked by irate viewers who cannot separate actor and character, Maybe more people can't than can -- the host of Death Valley Days was President of the United States for eight years.

> Does TV encourage, or even induce, schizophrenia? Or does it create a separate reality in conjunction with our minds, something that is neither totally our inner life nor totally TV. The networks might call that programming.

Marshall McLuhan explained how humans see tools - such as media - as an "extension of ourselves". It's important to keep this in mind when creating tools or types of media: you're also defining part of the human that uses the tool.

[1] The short story "Patterns" was originally published in the August 1987 issue of Omni.

Re: 'Our minds can be hijacked': tech insiders who fear a smartphone dystopia

#46
post #29

Does anyone think that Hacker News fits the bill of addictiveness? Or is HN different than Facebook/Reddit/Twitter for some reason?

Absolutely it does. The quality of discussion is higher, but the feedback cycle of addiction is precisely the same.

As are the rationalizations.

Re: 'Our minds can be hijacked': tech insiders who fear a smartphone dystopia

#47
This excellent article fails to mention artificial intelligence. Facebook has recruited one of the world’s top AI teams, led by Yann LeCun. Their work and Google's are the equivalent of tobacco companies engineering cigarettes to ensure that nicotine hits a smoker's brain more quickly. Facebook and other social networks are the cigarette companies of the mind. Cigarettes blackened our lungs with tar, and social media blacken our brains with distraction, alienation, envy, and loneliness.

Social media networks will become ever more addictive, and by using AI to increase the click-through rate on the ads, they will squeeze ever more money out of their addicts. AI will be essential to the "capture and sale of attention," as Tim Wu puts it, walking users from curiosity to the cash register more and more efficiently.[0]

Lewis is right to focus on addiction. Especially because behavioral addictions are easier to ignore than addictions to substances slung on street corners. But they amount to the same thing: you want something, but you don't want to want it, and being unable to resist it, you sabotage your own life. Addictions turn our brains against us.

In a prescient 2010 essay, PG warned of the acceleration of online addictions, and the lag between the introduction of an addictive product and society's response to it.[1]

Capitalism is an accelerant for addictive behavior, and we are only just realizing how unhappy people become as a result of the marketplace’s newest and most insidious products. What's worse, the necessary functions performed by our phones and the Internet are fatefully tangled with the apps that addict us. They put the heroin next to the tap water.

For anyone interested in a fictional account of American society as a tapestry of addictions, Infinite Jest will change the way you think. It's all about that buzz.[2]

Full disclosure: I prompted Paul Lewis to write this piece.

[0] https://www.amazon.com/Attention-Merchants-Scramble-Inside-H...

[1]http://www.paulgraham.com/addiction.html

[2] https://www.amazon.com/Infinite-Jest-David-Foster-Wallace-eb...

Re: 'Our minds can be hijacked': tech insiders who fear a smartphone dystopia

#48

I agree with him that social media could be very distracting, especially in the family settings, but, I get a ton of useful information and stay up-to-date with the latest research through Twitter, Reddit and HN. Cutting those out would mean putting an iron curtain on the latest insight and recent developments, and, essentially, quitting the front line.

I can't really remember where I read it, but the concept of an "infinity pool" is what really gets me. I can listen to the news, read a magazine, or watch a show and it's done. But HN, Reddit, Twitter, etc are ever replenishing pools of distraction. That's where it's damaging for me, I know I can always go back for more.

Not only the new stuff that replenishes the pool, but often times when I find a new resource/subreddit that I don't know much about but find interesting, there's often a huge amount of info already there. So even depleting the pool of past information becomes a huge distraction, all while more stuff is piling on top.

Re: 'Our minds can be hijacked': tech insiders who fear a smartphone dystopia

#49
post #4

Does anyone see an analogy with highly processed, sugary foods? Highly addictive, thought to be miracles of convenience, but ultimately detrimental when consumed in excess, and now we are starting to realise that and demand better. I wonder if society will go through the same rejection phase with attention-seeking media consumption. Or maybe those who grow up with it will be better able to control themselves.

Good analogy. The one I use is to compare our modern use of the internet and social media as our eras cigarette.

We know that it isn’t good for us but we don’t realky have any idea just how destructive it is to not only the user but to society.

My analogy breaks down in that cigarettes have very little to 0 use where as the internet is in fact useful and can be safely used - much like sugar.

Re: 'Our minds can be hijacked': tech insiders who fear a smartphone dystopia

#50

Ever see that photo of Mark Zuckerberg surrounded by hundreds of people in VR headsets? The backstory of the original Matrix movie doesn't seem as far fetched anymore. http://www.businessinsider.com/mark-zuckerberg-virtual-reali...

creepy AF
Post reply on HN