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Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

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Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#41

Post by edwhitesell »

yosito wrote: post #35

Every time I hear someone complain about open offices, I want to say "Shhh! They'll send us all back to our cubicles and chain us to our desks!". Seriously, if you have an open office it's not that hard to put headphones in or pop into a side office for some focus time. But being required to spend 40 hours a week alone in a tiny box is my personal definition of hell.

There are some environments where headphones are discouraged, sadly I worked in one that was semi-open (more of a bullpen).

The reality is some people work fine in open environments, some don't. If you really want to have happy, productive team members, you need to offer some different options.

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#42

Post by classybull »

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #33
TeMPOraL wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I so strongly wish companies would start including their office arrangement in the job description. It would make it easier for me to avoid open-plan places, and it would let those who like them avoid offices/cubicles - thus making it more likely employees will feel good and thus work at peak productivity. It would also let the industry gather some real feedback about people's preferences. I don't really see a…

It's a great idea - as there are very few these companies, their ads would stand out. Honestly, I don't know one single developer who loves open-plan places and wouldn't like to have a quiet room to work in. Most just wear headphones and try to eliminate cognitive noise in every way they can.

I enjoy them. It strikes me as extremely odd that the main complaint against open floor plans is that they kill productivity. This is such a complaint that there's people up and down this post moaning in agony as if it were literal torture that they're unable to be as productive as possible. Personally, I don't think that a company is entitled to me working at 100% productivity constantly, because I value my sanity too much. Yet, here are people begging, pleading for their employer to make them be able to produce more for their corporate overlord.

M'eh. I work at the efficiency that is comfortable for me. Occasionally I chat with my coworkers about stupid shit to keep my mind loose and give it a break. If I absolutely need to be in the zone for a couple hours, I put on headphones, find a private room, or work from home. I'm completely ok with open floor plans.

About the only things that would draw me to a private office job is, first, the prestige of having your own office, and second, the sense of ownership of space. I imagine it to be very comforting to go into work and have one little 8'x10' space which is "yours". If we're being honest, I think these two things are actually what the anti-open office people want. They just use productivity as a way of masking it and making it appear better to their employers.

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#43

Post by kstenerud »

Shivetya wrote: post #3

we had a web group to great fan fare had all new work area created for them, open ceilings, glass walled conference rooms, and open-plan in general. I am not sure if anyone like it. from lack of perceived "my space" to simple increase in noise. plus if the computer setups are not well planned out it just looks wrong. for me, it reminds me of one especially bad contract where we worked on school lunch room tables. fiv…

I worked in cubicle land for many years, and they are only marginally less bad than open plan offices. I got good at snagging the cubicle at the far end of a row with only one entrance, and that worked to stop the passers-by, but it still didn't stop the noise, or people who want to talk to you interrupting your flow by coming up behind you, tapping your shoulder, and scaring the shit out of you.

A proper work environment for this kind of thing requires floor-to-ceiling walls and a door you control.

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#44

Post by maxxxxx »

codyb wrote: post #31

Good. Apple is one of my favorite companies. I just absolutely love what they're doing and have done in terms of personal privacy. I'm really disheartened that they've moved to an open office layout. It's a surefire way to lose huge amounts of productivity from their engineers. Open office layouts are a travesty. They make literally no fucking sense. As engineers we're expected to maintain abstractions in our minds w…

I work in cubicles but the noise is also driving me crazy. There is always some conversation going on somewhere. In the office I am having more and more trouble holding on to a complex thought and in the evening I am totally exhausted. On the other hand working from home feels like paradise. It's quiet and I can look out the window when I need a break.

Because of the office environment I am now looking for a new job, either remote or an office. Open space has turned work from being interesting to plain misery and exhaustion for me.

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#45

Post by maxxxxx »

justherefortart wrote: post #40
heisenbit wrote: post #4

Steve Jobs is said to have poured in a lot of thought on how the architecture of the building is supporting work. Steve also had some architectural experience from Pixar. On the macro level the alignment of the architecture with the organization as it was explained always made sense to me. On the micro level changing from offices to open floor is a huge change. How was that supposed to preserve and foster the enginee…

For all the loving of open offices, I've never seen an exec that works in an open area themselves. I heard about one, but never saw it with my own eyes. This is in 30+ years of working.

Me neither. I am still waiting for the company where all the VPs sit along one table elbow to elbow.

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#46

Post by phkahler »

SethMurphy wrote: post #39

If as an engineer your only Job is to write code based on perfectly written functional specs, then open offices may not be the best. However, In larger project communication and transparency is an as important part of the job. While many people are more comfortable alone, you are part of a team and not just a coder. I find it selfish for people to feel their alone time is more important than learning how to work as a…

>> I find it selfish for people to feel their alone time is more important than learning how to work as a team. Noise canceling headphones do wonders when you need to focus.

Wow. That's a fairly narrow view you have there. The core work of engineering is done individually. People having ad-hoc meetings next to you ruins concentration and it's not just the noise. It's the visual distraction as well as a psychological distraction - you may wonder if something pertinent to you is being discussed and you should stop and participate. The notion of "just put on headphones" and it will all be better is - to use your own word - selfish.

How about some degree of privacy by default. In a traditional cube farm you can have 1 or perhaps 2 people stop in for discussions and go to a conference room for larger discussions that involve the team.

I guess the simplest way to show how wrong it is: in most open offices, the management still get offices. Sure, they have reasons like a need for private discussions (people conflicts, compensation, etc) but they could just grab a conference room for that stuff right? Nope, they hate being in the open too.

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#47

Post by kps »

yosito wrote: post #35

Every time I hear someone complain about open offices, I want to say "Shhh! They'll send us all back to our cubicles and chain us to our desks!". Seriously, if you have an open office it's not that hard to put headphones in or pop into a side office for some focus time. But being required to spend 40 hours a week alone in a tiny box is my personal definition of hell.

> pop into a side office for some focus time

Maybe that works where you are, but my desk is bolted to the divider and probably wouldn't even fit down the aisle between my coworkers.

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#48

Post by maxxxxx »

wpietri wrote: post #21
TeMPOraL wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder why. I think they provide enough privacy for a workplace (as long as you're allowed to use headphones for extra sound blocking, and as long as the entry is to your side, not behind you) - the only way to get even more would be closed-door offices, but that takes much more floor space. As for "collaboration", at this point I consider talking about it as a negative thing about a place. I mean, frankly, I know…

Having worked for years in a pair programming environment, I am pretty sure you can get a lot of code written collaboratively. Indeed, even though I'm an introvert, pair programming teams with frequent pair rotation (pairing with 2-3 people per day) is my favorite way to work because I think we end up with better code.

Pair programming is fine. It's real collaboration. But just sitting in one big room while doing their own work is not collaboration.

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#49

Post by codyb »

SethMurphy wrote: post #39

If as an engineer your only Job is to write code based on perfectly written functional specs, then open offices may not be the best. However, In larger project communication and transparency is an as important part of the job. While many people are more comfortable alone, you are part of a team and not just a coder. I find it selfish for people to feel their alone time is more important than learning how to work as a…

Hm. Maybe I'm nuts but I have literally no idea what desiring a private and quiet space for concentration does to ruin a persons ability to work as a teammate.

My coworkers love their noise canceling ear phones. That's great. What I'd love is to not hear their ratatat as they drum to their music.

And I do not fault them for that, because I love to ratatat to my own music when I'm listening to it as well.

A place to be myself while I work, what an odd concept.

Re: Apple Park employees revolt over having to work in open-plan offices

#50

Post by yardie »

tomohawk wrote: post #2

Such a failure to learn. The US school system went through this with "open classrooms". Schools were built to support the idea of no walls between classrooms. For years, teachers trying to maintain sanity erected temporary dividers. These days, most of those schools have been rehabbed to include actual walls, or they've been demo'd. Such a waste.

I went to one such school. Our walls were made from blackboards and the teachers had installed nets to catch the occasional paper plane and flying pencils.
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