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Spain Fines Facebook Over Tracking Users Without Consent

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Re: Spain Fines Facebook Over Tracking Users Without Consent

#41

Post by alexasmyths »

nradov wrote: post #15
beevai142 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps it is an action boosting EU-based companies? Otherwise they are at a disadvantage in competition, because US-based Googles and Facebooks game the e.g. the tax system in a way that EU-based companies cannot.

Tax avoidance isn't helping large US based tech companies aquire more users or gain more control of the Internet. It only impacts investors and executives. So that's not the reason why EU based competitors have mostly failed to reach dominant positions.

"Tax avoidance isn't helping large US based tech companies aquire more users or gain more control of the Internet"

No, it really does help large entities wield their power even more.

The billions of dollars that the big cos have stockpiled ensures they can suck up the talent, attack new markets and keep competitors at bay.

It's not the biggest thing, but it's a thing.

Re: Spain Fines Facebook Over Tracking Users Without Consent

#42

Post by Joe-Z »

serhei wrote: post #30
t1o5 wrote: post #13

Facebook tried to pull a similar gimmick in India called "Free Basics". It was dealt with criticism and the regulatory authority in India was smart enough to reject the proposal. Reliance, one of the sheepskin corporation in India wanted to embrace Free Basics with Facebook but could not. Now Reliance is trying a similar act with "Jio" cellphones. Its a good thing that many countries are realizing that US based monop…

To paint a less rosy picture, many countries are good at keeping out US based tracking / social media monopolies because they want to support their own tracking / social media monopolies. It's kind of a "well, duh" moment that China is going to support its own Internet services rather than let that data be collected by people in the United States. Russia has a similar government-backed Internet services ecosystem goi…

>To paint a less rosy picture...

I think different companies, although they may be monopolies in their own right, spread out over multiple countries is still preferable to a global monopoly. Not just because of data collection, also regarding keeping tech know-how locally for example.

Re: Spain Fines Facebook Over Tracking Users Without Consent

#43

Post by nradov »

alexasmyths wrote: post #41
nradov wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tax avoidance isn't helping large US based tech companies aquire more users or gain more control of the Internet. It only impacts investors and executives. So that's not the reason why EU based competitors have mostly failed to reach dominant positions.

"Tax avoidance isn't helping large US based tech companies aquire more users or gain more control of the Internet" No, it really does help large entities wield their power even more. The billions of dollars that the big cos have stockpiled ensures they can suck up the talent, attack new markets and keep competitors at bay. It's not the biggest thing, but it's a thing.

No it doesn't really help. The money is mostly stockpiled offshore specifically to avoid taxation. They aren't using it to hire more employees or launch new products. The only thing it might help with is to prevent hostile acquisitions.

Re: Spain Fines Facebook Over Tracking Users Without Consent

#44

Post by alexasmyths »

switch007 wrote: post #16
Swizec wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an investor in my first startup once put it: You want to build a company in the US because you have access to a market of 300,000,000 people right from the beginning. In Europe markets are much smaller. Munchen and Berlin are completely different markets. Germany and Spain? Fuggetaboutit. Yes you can't address that big of a market immediately, but if you're into the whole rapid expansion VC thing, having a big mar…

> Munchen and Berlin are completely different markets In what respect? Berlin and Munich are 363 miles apart, share standard German, a currency, a time zone, a prime minister, some culture, legal system... Are you referring to class/wealth?

They are different cultures.

Munich/Bayern - old school, conservative, traditional.

Berlin - multicultural, hipster.

Kind of like SF vs. Dallas.

That said, they are both very German and it's a little bit of a stretch to say they are different markets.

But Germany and Spain are night and day different and building for EU-wide is very hard.

Not only are there different markets, but Europeans have strong cultures, which include behaviours - they don't jump a 'the new thing' because it's cool.

America is a land of fads and trends, people like new activities, new dynamics - also, people are always in search of identity, and 'brand power' is powerful in the US across the board, just as some American brands have considerable cultural power in China.

There are basically no places in Europe with a critical mass of early adopters for anything in tech, so it's tough. Some spots, yes, and numbers overall, yes. But no hot-zones.

Re: Spain Fines Facebook Over Tracking Users Without Consent

#45

Post by alexasmyths »

alexasmyths wrote: post #41
nradov wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tax avoidance isn't helping large US based tech companies aquire more users or gain more control of the Internet. It only impacts investors and executives. So that's not the reason why EU based competitors have mostly failed to reach dominant positions.

"Tax avoidance isn't helping large US based tech companies aquire more users or gain more control of the Internet" No, it really does help large entities wield their power even more. The billions of dollars that the big cos have stockpiled ensures they can suck up the talent, attack new markets and keep competitors at bay. It's not the biggest thing, but it's a thing.

Yes, it does help.

A) They have massive operations internationally and hire a lot.

B) Did you witness Microsofts dismantling of Nokia? That was a takedown of an entire ecosystem and huge gift to Apple and Google/Android as well. Paid for by cheap taxes overseas.

Re: Spain Fines Facebook Over Tracking Users Without Consent

#46

Post by wbl »

Joe-Z wrote: post #42
serhei wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To paint a less rosy picture, many countries are good at keeping out US based tracking / social media monopolies because they want to support their own tracking / social media monopolies. It's kind of a "well, duh" moment that China is going to support its own Internet services rather than let that data be collected by people in the United States. Russia has a similar government-backed Internet services ecosystem goi…

>To paint a less rosy picture... I think different companies, although they may be monopolies in their own right, spread out over multiple countries is still preferable to a global monopoly. Not just because of data collection, also regarding keeping tech know-how locally for example.

It really isn't. Competition globally is better for consumers. Imagine if you had to drive only US cars to keep automotive knowledge local.

Re: Spain Fines Facebook Over Tracking Users Without Consent

#47

Post by parthdesai »

t1o5 wrote: post #13

Facebook tried to pull a similar gimmick in India called "Free Basics". It was dealt with criticism and the regulatory authority in India was smart enough to reject the proposal. Reliance, one of the sheepskin corporation in India wanted to embrace Free Basics with Facebook but could not. Now Reliance is trying a similar act with "Jio" cellphones. Its a good thing that many countries are realizing that US based monop…

Free Basics and Internet.org were two of the most disgusting moves i have seen from fb. I wonder if any of Indian workers working at fb questioned zuck about it at one of the his town-hall meetings ( if it is possible to do so).

Re: Spain Fines Facebook Over Tracking Users Without Consent

#48

Post by dqpb »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #23
t1o5 wrote: post #13

Facebook tried to pull a similar gimmick in India called "Free Basics". It was dealt with criticism and the regulatory authority in India was smart enough to reject the proposal. Reliance, one of the sheepskin corporation in India wanted to embrace Free Basics with Facebook but could not. Now Reliance is trying a similar act with "Jio" cellphones. Its a good thing that many countries are realizing that US based monop…

It makes me weirdly happy as an American to see it happen. What happens when instead of massive, boring, soulless, mediocre corporations like Facebook serving 2 billion sharecroppers, we've got multiple or even dozens of smaller networks serving regions and niches? That has the potential for innovation we can't begin to understand. Facebook is akin to McDonald's not only spreading internationally but also replacing a…

What happens when ... we've got multiple or even dozens of smaller networks serving regions and niches?

I think there are already more than two dozen smaller niche social networks.

Re: Spain Fines Facebook Over Tracking Users Without Consent

#49

Post by ReverseCold »

t1o5 wrote: post #13

Facebook tried to pull a similar gimmick in India called "Free Basics". It was dealt with criticism and the regulatory authority in India was smart enough to reject the proposal. Reliance, one of the sheepskin corporation in India wanted to embrace Free Basics with Facebook but could not. Now Reliance is trying a similar act with "Jio" cellphones. Its a good thing that many countries are realizing that US based monop…

More context for Jio, they offered free cell phone coverage for anyone in India for a few months (LTE, great coverage everywhere, very fast) and now are offering it very cheap.

I'll leave it to you to figure out how/why. :)

Re: Spain Fines Facebook Over Tracking Users Without Consent

#50

Post by dec0dedab0de »

tomp wrote: post #39
jacquesm wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Revocation of corporate charter is the equivalent of the death penalty for a corporation.

In contrast to humans, who have the right to live, companies have the privilege to exist.

In contrast to humans, who have the right to live, companies have the privilege to exist.

I agree with your sentiment, but I consider being alive the greatest privilege.

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