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DIY Powerwall Builders Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries to Power Their Homes

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Re: DIY Powerwall Builders Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries to Power Their Homes

#41

Post by zkms »

extr wrote: post #6
ficklepickle wrote: post #3

This sounds like it could be rather dangerous, no? Connecting up a bunch of old lithium cells of unknown origin and using them hard. I'd also worry about an insurance claim being denied if it burned my house down. However, I very much approve of the DIY ingenuity and repurposing of old stuff.

Yes, this is extremely dangerous. I'm sure some of the people mentioned have the expertise to pull it off, but for most this is like building a massive bomb in your garage. There's a reason that 18650s aren't generally sold directly to consumers, in most applications they need dedicated circuitry to be used safely. And that's for brand new cells, it's another story entirely to be using random collections of "old" cel…

> There's a reason that 18650s aren't generally sold directly to consumers

They are, but IME the sourcing on some of those (especially through Amazon.com, which comingles items from different sources) is hinky. That 18650s can be dangerous if misused or if counterfeit isn't an argument for restricting availability, it's an argument for making them available directly to consumers from legitimate authentic sources.

Re: DIY Powerwall Builders Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries to Power Their Homes

#42

Post by fragmede »

Reason077 wrote: post #21
cyphar wrote: post #2

One of the really disappointing things about Tesla is how incredibly proprietary all of their products are. For a company that has such lofty goals as "saving the world", it feels wrong to me for them to then sell DRM cars and unrepairable black boxes. Maybe I'm just too idealistic, but surely if we have an opportunity to create a new market for solar devices why would we decide to recreate the proprietary world of t…

Unrepairable black boxes? This isn't really true of Tesla. Sure, it would be nice if they could make service manuals and service parts more freely available, but the same could be said of all car manufacturers. There are guys on YouTube who have re-built entire Teslas from near-scratch using salvaged parts from multiple vehicles. Guys with no formal training and no previous experience with EVs. Tesla does not do anyt…

Going the salvage titled Model S route is, from the accounts I've seen (likely featuring the same videos from YouTube), is thoroughly unsupported by Tesla, to the point that Tesla will refuse to sell parts to people if Tesla knows they are trying to rebuild vehicles that have a salvage title.

There's making parts "more freely available" and then there's "you can't have this from us, for any price". Fortunately the ludicrous amount of power in the Model S and people's inability to control the car (or themselves) means there's a good sized underground market of salvaged Model S' bodies and parts, even if there's no office service manual available to amateurs.

Meanwhile, Chevrolet will just sell you the engine from a corvette in a crate. (Okay, it's ~$12k, but they're willing to do it.)

I say this as someone with a Model 3 reservation, mind you. Tesla wants to build the iPhones of the electric car industry - no user-serviceable components inside, and the battery isn't removable by us mere mortals who don't work at Tesla. (Abandoned battery replacement tech demos from a few years ago aside.)

Re: DIY Powerwall Builders Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries to Power Their Homes

#43

Post by hak8or »

jjeaff wrote: post #35
ficklepickle wrote: post #3

This sounds like it could be rather dangerous, no? Connecting up a bunch of old lithium cells of unknown origin and using them hard. I'd also worry about an insurance claim being denied if it burned my house down. However, I very much approve of the DIY ingenuity and repurposing of old stuff.

Luckily, home owners' insurance covers stupidity as well as acts of God. So as long as there is no evidence of intentional arson, then insurance would have to pay.

That sounds really unusual I feel, the insurance company should be within their right to deny a claim if the home was destroyed due to gross negligence, like someone deciding to make a pool on their roof without asking an architect, or throwing a raging party with 700 people and the floor collapsing.

Re: DIY Powerwall Builders Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries to Power Their Homes

#44

Post by nine_k »

ficklepickle wrote: post #3

This sounds like it could be rather dangerous, no? Connecting up a bunch of old lithium cells of unknown origin and using them hard. I'd also worry about an insurance claim being denied if it burned my house down. However, I very much approve of the DIY ingenuity and repurposing of old stuff.

Can this thing be put in a fire-resistant compartment outside house? Even a couple layers of drywall would probably be enough to isolate the fire. A design with inner fireproof walls would prevent one cell from lighting up most of the pack. All this is neither hard nor expensive, and would limit the consequences of a fire severely.

Re: DIY Powerwall Builders Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries to Power Their Homes

#45

Post by Zak »

userbinator wrote: post #34
extr wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I'm aware you can buy them. I have 4 cells sitting in front of me right now. But there is a big difference between someone specifically buying them for use in a high-discharge device like a flashlight or vaporizer versus picking up a pack at Walmart next to the AA/AAA. Because of the high discharge you can hurt yourself or start a fire much more easily. Just look at the stories of people with burns on their thi…

But there is a big difference between someone specifically buying them for use in a high-discharge device like a flashlight or vaporizer versus picking up a pack at Walmart next to the AA/AAA You can find 18650s for sale on walmart.com . I'm not sure if the physical stores carry them, because there aren't any where I live, but I know that in Shenzhen/HK and other parts of Asia you can easily find 18650s for sale amon…

> I'm not sure if the physical stores carry them

Flashlight geek here. Several people on flashlight forums have reported finding the Westinghouse branded 18650s in physical Walmart stores. They have a low capacity - 2000 mAh, compared to 3000-3500 for the latest cells from Sony/LG/Samsung/Sanyo/Panasonic. They also use a cell of unknown manufacture, so I can't be sure of the quality.

Specialty battery stores, higher-end outdoor gear stores and vape shops have 18650s, but it's best to get them online from dealers that know what they're doing. In the US, good options include Illumn, MTNelectronics and Li-ion Wholesale. These places have the gear to test batteries to make sure their suppliers didn't send them fakes, and usually have very competitive prices.

Re: DIY Powerwall Builders Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries to Power Their Homes

#46

Post by seabird »

I appreciate the engineering and time people are putting into these projects. I absolutely hate the way this article is portraying these people's work.

These are not "consumers who can't afford commercially produced powerwalls." These are people who could probably work professionally in the field if they're not already. These projects are not "a little research, invested time, and a little ingenuity," they are the culmination of years of experience and passion, along with extreme respect for the technology.

Don't get me wrong, I want people to do this. However, acting like people can safely dive in to high-energy electronics/electrical projects head-first is stupid.

Re: DIY Powerwall Builders Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries to Power Their Homes

#47

Post by UnpossibleJim »

nine_k wrote: post #44
ficklepickle wrote: post #3

This sounds like it could be rather dangerous, no? Connecting up a bunch of old lithium cells of unknown origin and using them hard. I'd also worry about an insurance claim being denied if it burned my house down. However, I very much approve of the DIY ingenuity and repurposing of old stuff.

Can this thing be put in a fire-resistant compartment outside house? Even a couple layers of drywall would probably be enough to isolate the fire. A design with inner fireproof walls would prevent one cell from lighting up most of the pack. All this is neither hard nor expensive, and would limit the consequences of a fire severely.

No way I'd do this inside my house, either, but if you watch the video, the Australian fellow had his in two little aluminium sheds out back, set on concrete. Looks like, most likely, a catastrophic event would trip the wires and (at worst) burn down the sheds and couple computers/Arduino boards. Now, insurance folk will always fight a claim, but you might be able to get past... maybe =/

Re: DIY Powerwall Builders Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries to Power Their Homes

#48

Post by heartbreak »

gamad wrote: post #19
stephengillie wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please excuse my ignorance - what is a licensed PE? Edit: Thanks for the answers. 2 questions: 1. Why would you not do this? 2. Were you to do this, what precautions would you take?

Someone licensed by their (US) state as an Engineer, and the only person (in most states) who can legally call himself an Engineer. https://www.nspe.org/resources/licensure

That’s not true for any of the United States. You can’t call yourself a Professional Engineer without being licensed, but anyone can call themselves an engineer. Train engineer, growth engineer, happiness engineer, and software engineer are all perfectly valid titles without a P.E. license.

Re: DIY Powerwall Builders Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries to Power Their Homes

#49

Post by heartbreak »

jjeaff wrote: post #35
ficklepickle wrote: post #3

This sounds like it could be rather dangerous, no? Connecting up a bunch of old lithium cells of unknown origin and using them hard. I'd also worry about an insurance claim being denied if it burned my house down. However, I very much approve of the DIY ingenuity and repurposing of old stuff.

Luckily, home owners' insurance covers stupidity as well as acts of God. So as long as there is no evidence of intentional arson, then insurance would have to pay.

If they can prove you knew it was an increased fire risk, they won’t cover it.

Re: DIY Powerwall Builders Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries to Power Their Homes

#50

Post by weberc2 »

stephengillie wrote: post #14
gamad wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a EE, and a licensed PE. I wouldn't do this.

Please excuse my ignorance - what is a licensed PE? Edit: Thanks for the answers. 2 questions: 1. Why would you not do this? 2. Were you to do this, what precautions would you take?

Professional engineer
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