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DIY Powerwall Builders Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries to Power Their Homes

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Re: DIY Powerwall Builders Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries to Power Their Homes

#21

Post by Reason077 »

cyphar wrote: post #2

One of the really disappointing things about Tesla is how incredibly proprietary all of their products are. For a company that has such lofty goals as "saving the world", it feels wrong to me for them to then sell DRM cars and unrepairable black boxes. Maybe I'm just too idealistic, but surely if we have an opportunity to create a new market for solar devices why would we decide to recreate the proprietary world of t…

Unrepairable black boxes? This isn't really true of Tesla.

Sure, it would be nice if they could make service manuals and service parts more freely available, but the same could be said of all car manufacturers.

There are guys on YouTube who have re-built entire Teslas from near-scratch using salvaged parts from multiple vehicles. Guys with no formal training and no previous experience with EVs. Tesla does not do anything to make their cars hard to repair.

Re: DIY Powerwall Builders Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries to Power Their Homes

#22

Post by hwillis »

gamad wrote: post #11
stephengillie wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hyperbolic response isn't warranted, as these are nearly identical lithium cells of known origin. Were they all different random cells, or if disassembly were required, then one might catch fire or explode like a small firecracker. This isn't much more dangerous than putting batteries in a toy car, or putting gasoline into a hybrid.

I'm a EE, and a licensed PE. I wouldn't do this.

I'd rather use old cells than shady new cells. New cells are the dangerous ones- manufacturing defects can make it through QA, but everything gets found after a few years of use.

What area do you work in?

Re: DIY Powerwall Builders Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries to Power Their Homes

#23

Post by userbinator »

Reason077 wrote: post #21
cyphar wrote: post #2

One of the really disappointing things about Tesla is how incredibly proprietary all of their products are. For a company that has such lofty goals as "saving the world", it feels wrong to me for them to then sell DRM cars and unrepairable black boxes. Maybe I'm just too idealistic, but surely if we have an opportunity to create a new market for solar devices why would we decide to recreate the proprietary world of t…

Unrepairable black boxes? This isn't really true of Tesla. Sure, it would be nice if they could make service manuals and service parts more freely available, but the same could be said of all car manufacturers. There are guys on YouTube who have re-built entire Teslas from near-scratch using salvaged parts from multiple vehicles. Guys with no formal training and no previous experience with EVs. Tesla does not do anyt…

Tesla does not do anything to make their cars hard to repair.

I'm not in the EV or Tesla communities, but I remember reading something about "activation" being required?

Re: DIY Powerwall Builders Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries to Power Their Homes

#24

Post by alasdair_ »

extr wrote: post #6
ficklepickle wrote: post #3

This sounds like it could be rather dangerous, no? Connecting up a bunch of old lithium cells of unknown origin and using them hard. I'd also worry about an insurance claim being denied if it burned my house down. However, I very much approve of the DIY ingenuity and repurposing of old stuff.

Yes, this is extremely dangerous. I'm sure some of the people mentioned have the expertise to pull it off, but for most this is like building a massive bomb in your garage. There's a reason that 18650s aren't generally sold directly to consumers, in most applications they need dedicated circuitry to be used safely. And that's for brand new cells, it's another story entirely to be using random collections of "old" cel…

>There's a reason that 18650s aren't generally sold directly to consumers https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/s/ref=is_s?k=18650 has pages of them.

The last flashlight I bought requires them too.

Re: DIY Powerwall Builders Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries to Power Their Homes

#25

Post by Reason077 »

hwillis wrote: post #12
extr wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this is extremely dangerous. I'm sure some of the people mentioned have the expertise to pull it off, but for most this is like building a massive bomb in your garage. There's a reason that 18650s aren't generally sold directly to consumers, in most applications they need dedicated circuitry to be used safely. And that's for brand new cells, it's another story entirely to be using random collections of "old" cel…

Theres no way to detonate a pack like this. 18650s have a pressure release, so the cstch fire but dont explode. In the very unlikely event that fails, a cell could burst, but it cant cause other cells to burst unless the entire pack failed to vent under extreme pressure.

Yeah. It's a total misconception that Lithium batteries can "explode". Sure, there's a fire risk if you have faulty or unprotected cells.

But there's no explosion risk unless there's something very wrong with the way they're packaged.

Re: DIY Powerwall Builders Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries to Power Their Homes

#26

Post by ghaff »

gamad wrote: post #19
stephengillie wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please excuse my ignorance - what is a licensed PE? Edit: Thanks for the answers. 2 questions: 1. Why would you not do this? 2. Were you to do this, what precautions would you take?

Someone licensed by their (US) state as an Engineer, and the only person (in most states) who can legally call himself an Engineer. https://www.nspe.org/resources/licensure

>the only person (in most states) who can legally call himself an Engineer

Someone must have a PE to sign off on certain things when dealing with regulators and so forth. Which makes getting a PE in certain situations important. But not having a PE is hardly equivalent to calling yourself a lawyer if you haven't passed the bar in a state.

Re: DIY Powerwall Builders Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries to Power Their Homes

#27

Post by extr »

alasdair_ wrote: post #24
extr wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this is extremely dangerous. I'm sure some of the people mentioned have the expertise to pull it off, but for most this is like building a massive bomb in your garage. There's a reason that 18650s aren't generally sold directly to consumers, in most applications they need dedicated circuitry to be used safely. And that's for brand new cells, it's another story entirely to be using random collections of "old" cel…

>There's a reason that 18650s aren't generally sold directly to consumers https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/s/ref=is_s?k=18650 has pages of them. The last flashlight I bought requires them too.

Yeah, I'm aware you can buy them. I have 4 cells sitting in front of me right now. But there is a big difference between someone specifically buying them for use in a high-discharge device like a flashlight or vaporizer versus picking up a pack at Walmart next to the AA/AAA. Because of the high discharge you can hurt yourself or start a fire much more easily. Just look at the stories of people with burns on their thighs from throwing them into a pocket with keys/change.

Re: DIY Powerwall Builders Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries to Power Their Homes

#28

Post by Reason077 »

userbinator wrote: post #23
Reason077 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unrepairable black boxes? This isn't really true of Tesla. Sure, it would be nice if they could make service manuals and service parts more freely available, but the same could be said of all car manufacturers. There are guys on YouTube who have re-built entire Teslas from near-scratch using salvaged parts from multiple vehicles. Guys with no formal training and no previous experience with EVs. Tesla does not do anyt…

Tesla does not do anything to make their cars hard to repair. I'm not in the EV or Tesla communities, but I remember reading something about "activation" being required?

You're probably thinking of activating for supercharger access. Tesla may not let vehicles connect to their superchargers if they've been reported as written off. It also won't be able to connect to Tesla's servers for OTA software updates, etc.

If you can prove that the vehicle has been appropriately repaired (by a qualified body shop, since it's a safety issue in the case of structural damage), it can be re-activated.

But Tesla does not remotely disable vehicles or anything like that. Even if it's been written off, theres nothing to prevent it being driven just like any normal car once repaired.

Re: DIY Powerwall Builders Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries to Power Their Homes

#29

Post by SwellJoe »

cyphar wrote: post #2

One of the really disappointing things about Tesla is how incredibly proprietary all of their products are. For a company that has such lofty goals as "saving the world", it feels wrong to me for them to then sell DRM cars and unrepairable black boxes. Maybe I'm just too idealistic, but surely if we have an opportunity to create a new market for solar devices why would we decide to recreate the proprietary world of t…

My annoyance with Tesla is somewhat related. I don't like that I can't simply buy a Powerwall or solar roof tiles. I would have to hire one of their approved installers, which increases the cost remarkably. I don't know the markup, because you can't get flat materials pricing data from Tesla, or couldn't last time I checked, but I know labor for solar installation and electrical work is quite high.

I understand why they do it, but it means that for the segment of the population that enjoys that kind of thing, and knows how (I've done my own solar installations, and helped others, on multiple RVs) I have to use much less awesome components. I wanna play with the tech and save a few thousand dollars, but that's not an option for Tesla solar and Powerwall gear. I also want to use it in ways Tesla won't allow (Powerwall can't be installed in RVs or manufactured housing like a tiny house on wheels, for example, even if one were to design the house around safely doing so).

Re: DIY Powerwall Builders Are Using Recycled Laptop Batteries to Power Their Homes

#30

Post by userbinator »

askvictor wrote: post #5
ficklepickle wrote: post #3

This sounds like it could be rather dangerous, no? Connecting up a bunch of old lithium cells of unknown origin and using them hard. I'd also worry about an insurance claim being denied if it burned my house down. However, I very much approve of the DIY ingenuity and repurposing of old stuff.

If they're from laptops the cells should be safe (as opposed to unknown new cells from AliExpress which may or may not be to spec); albeit not necessarily at maximum capacity. As long as appropriate protection circuitry is used, I don't see how using then hard would make any difference (laptops use batteries hard too).

opposed to unknown new cells from AliExpress which may or may not be to spec

Many of those are actually recycled old cells, likely from laptop batteries, and could still have a lot of capacity left --- often, what happens is that one of the cells in the pack fails/goes out of balance and the protection circuit disables the whole thing, meaning the rest of them are still very much usable.

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