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Firefox tracks users with Google Analytics in the add-on settings

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Re: Firefox tracks users with Google Analytics in the add-on settings

#41

Post by gcp »

michaelt wrote: post #22

Given Firefox's pro-privacy positioning vs Chrome [1] and the fact that, by virtue of being in about: these requests get sent even if the user is browsing in private browsing mode or has extensions installed explicitly to block this kind of traffic [2] it's surprising the Mozilla employees in that thread are so keen to dismiss this. [1] https://mobile.twitter.com/meatcomputer/status/8813107782251... [2] https://githu…

Sending these requests with TP enabled (i.e. in private browsing) is a plain bug as far as I'm concerned.

Re: Firefox tracks users with Google Analytics in the add-on settings

#42

Post by bjpbakker »

kuschku wrote: post #27
bjpbakker wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly this has never been secret. It's even in the configure flags to enable/disable it. So you van easily disable it as you wish. There's a page on the wiki aboit various forms of data collections [1]. It os pretty descriptive of the information they send. [1] https://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox/Data_Collection

The question is, will you be informed about it if you only read the information that is directly linked, or shown to you, when downloading, installing, and running Firefox? No. That’s the big issue. You have to actively search out if Firefox tracks you to find out that this happens. That’s pretty secret.

I don't disagree with you that the information can be made more easily available. I was just responding to it not being a secret.

As an aside it suprises me that this is so blown up today (while tracking shipped a long time ago). Many complaining users will even comment or share this via their Chrome browser, which is far worse than Firefox (still not saying that Firefox is doing everything right here :) )

Re: Firefox tracks users with Google Analytics in the add-on settings

#43

Post by drdaeman »

davb wrote: post #19
coldpie wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firefox is a good one. They're clearly implementing a fix for this bug.

I guess I'm interested in browsers who's developers wouldn't have done this in the first place - a browser which has privacy as a core principle and who's develop we wouldn't consider pushing any data, regardless of aggregation or commercial value, to a third party without explicit consent..

>> broad compatibility with websites

> a browser which has privacy as a core principle

Sorry, but sad truth is, those two things are mutually exclusive.

The modern web is all about running pieces of code. Websites give you a code and expect you to run it (or they'll break). You can throw in some heuristics (e.g. blacklist known offenders and replace them with do-nothing shims) and try to keep up with the ever-changing world, but here is just no way to have this guesswork as a core principle and expect things to not break.

Re: Firefox tracks users with Google Analytics in the add-on settings

#44

Post by lucideer »

shallot_router wrote: post #35
michaelt wrote: post #22

Given Firefox's pro-privacy positioning vs Chrome [1] and the fact that, by virtue of being in about: these requests get sent even if the user is browsing in private browsing mode or has extensions installed explicitly to block this kind of traffic [2] it's surprising the Mozilla employees in that thread are so keen to dismiss this. [1] https://mobile.twitter.com/meatcomputer/status/8813107782251... [2] https://githu…

@tofumatt's responses sound pragmatic but very tone-deaf given Mozilla's privacy stance. I feel like the only right answer here is to tie all of this into the telemetry opt-in and don't load GA if the user hasn't opted in.

The problem with that approach is that, many technically literate Firefox users will deliberately opt-in to Telemetry as a component of their support for a pro-privacy product.

Telemetry actively benefits development of Firefox, and a pro-privacy user will want to strategically share their data with entities they trust in order to row back against the tide of entities that they do not trust.

Frankly, Mozilla are shooting themselves in the foot by sending any data from any of their products or web properties to their primary competitor.

Re: Firefox tracks users with Google Analytics in the add-on settings

#45

Post by pavement » 

  As I mentioned in #1107: we will not be 
  removing analytics support entirely. It 
  is extremely useful to us and we have 
  already weighed the cost/benefit of 
  using tracking.
https://github.com/mozilla/addons-frontend/issues/1107

Ew. Firefox, I am ashamed to know you.

Re: Firefox tracks users with Google Analytics in the add-on settings

#46

Post by [deleted] »

bjpbakker wrote: post #42
kuschku wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is, will you be informed about it if you only read the information that is directly linked, or shown to you, when downloading, installing, and running Firefox? No. That’s the big issue. You have to actively search out if Firefox tracks you to find out that this happens. That’s pretty secret.

I don't disagree with you that the information can be made more easily available. I was just responding to it not being a secret. As an aside it suprises me that this is so blown up today (while tracking shipped a long time ago). Many complaining users will even comment or share this via their Chrome browser, which is far worse than Firefox (still not saying that Firefox is doing everything right here :) )

[deleted]

Re: Firefox tracks users with Google Analytics in the add-on settings

#47

Post by gcp »

kuschku wrote: post #40
gcp wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I don't disagree. The increasing usage of web pages in the browser UI has made this problematic and is what caused the root problem here in the first place.

I’d argue the root cause is more that Mozilla is willing to trade away privacy for developer convenience. That they made this decision in the first place, without anyone at Mozilla saying "maybe we shouldn’t do that", is very concerning w.r.t. privacy in the rest of the browser. Even on a Mozilla webpage I wouldn’t expect to see Google Analytics, but instead something like Piwik.

I’d argue the root cause is more that Mozilla is willing to trade away privacy for developer convenience.

Oh, not arguing that. Even with Google out of the picture entirely, Telemetry is a nice example. But I'd argue it is needed to stay relevant as a browser. So it's not a good counterargument to Mozilla's decision here.

You can see from the relevant bugs that GA vs Piwik and such were certainly considered, so people are definitely thinking about "maybe we shouldn't do that". In the case of GA, it ended up with required data silo-ing on Google's side.

For some people that won't be enough.

Re: Firefox tracks users with Google Analytics in the add-on settings

#48

Post by forgotpwtomain »

Interesting comment by Gorhill from the above discussion:

>> I thought web extensions couldn't block that content.

> I just ran a couple of tests, and I believe you are correct.

> Legacy uBlock Origin can block the network request to GA.

> However webext-hybrid uBO as per Network pane in dev tools does not block it. Same for pure webext Ghostery, the network request to GA was not blocked, again as per Network pane in dev tools.

> What is concerning is that both uBO webext-hybrid and Ghostery report the network request to GA as being blocked, while it is really not as per Network pane in dev tools. It's as if the order to block/redirect the network request was silently ignored by the webRequest API, and this causes webext-based blockers to incorrectly and misleadingly report to users what is really happening internally, GA was not really blocked on about:addons, but there is no way for the webext blockers to know this and report properly to users.

> This is what I have observed, hopefully this can be confirmed by others.

Re: Firefox tracks users with Google Analytics in the add-on settings

#49

Post by MikusR »

gcp wrote: post #31
rexicus wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget the "bug" where Google's supercookie was un-deletable https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1008706

1) This bug is INVALID. Several people tried to reproduce it and failed. 2) The indicated cookie (from bug 1026538) is a cookie sandboxed for privacy reasons and NOT your real Google cookie. It broke the cookie manager exactly because it was sandboxed. So tell me, what do you mean by using quotes around "bug"?

It's called FUD.

Re: Firefox tracks users with Google Analytics in the add-on settings

#50

Post by snakeanus »

drdaeman wrote: post #43
davb wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I'm interested in browsers who's developers wouldn't have done this in the first place - a browser which has privacy as a core principle and who's develop we wouldn't consider pushing any data, regardless of aggregation or commercial value, to a third party without explicit consent..

>> broad compatibility with websites > a browser which has privacy as a core principle Sorry, but sad truth is, those two things are mutually exclusive. The modern web is all about running pieces of code. Websites give you a code and expect you to run it (or they'll break). You can throw in some heuristics (e.g. blacklist known offenders and replace them with do-nothing shims) and try to keep up with the ever-changin…

Wouldn't it be possible for a browser to implement js but simply not implement any functions that can be used to track you?
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