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Not Just Mike Pence. Americans Are Wary of Being Alone with the Opposite Sex

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Re: Not Just Mike Pence. Americans Are Wary of Being Alone with the Opposite Sex

#41

Post by mc32 »

Realist1337 wrote: post #33
mc32 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand your PoV. I would say it would be extremely rare for a woman (or man) to make baseless accusations from uncertain interpretations. People who bring forward accusations are typically people who've had the same untoward thing done to them repeatedly. That said, one has to acknowledge there are genuinely malicious people --but they typically have a pattern and it will not be their first time making false ac…

>> People who bring forward accusations are typically people who've had the same untoward thing done to them repeatedly. Sounds like you've already pre-inclined towards a guilty party then, before you even heard evidence from both sides. And if there is no evidence, the man is in a world of trouble. I have personally witnessed a man in the office be fired for "sexual harassment" shortly after escalating an accounting…

I don't doubt that can happen --there are vindictive, retributive people out there. That kind of person would not need a 1:1 or drive home, etc., to bring forward an accusation.

Re: Not Just Mike Pence. Americans Are Wary of Being Alone with the Opposite Sex

#42

Post by speedplane »

swiley wrote: post #37
speedplane wrote: post #31

Two surprises about this article: 1 - 25% of women think it's inappropriate to have a work meeting with a man. 2 - 41% of men think it's appropriate to have a drink one-on-one with a women.

Yeah the drink thing is definitely inappropriate.

There are a lot of ways it could be made appropriate, e.g., group setting, a long work-history together, very equal power dynamic. But the idea of a superior bringing out a female for a drink one-on-one is almost certainly a recipe for disaster. Go for lunch, coffee, or a game of golf instead.

Re: Not Just Mike Pence. Americans Are Wary of Being Alone with the Opposite Sex

#43

Post by mc32 »

manmal wrote: post #35
3131s wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Phnom Penh and I'd say the crime here is about as bad as an average larger American city, but in a different way. There is more petty crime, especially theft. I've lived here 4 years and never had any problem really, but I see visitors and expats alike getting robbed frequently. I've avoided it because I don't carry anything worth stealing and I am not the type of person that thieves target.

How do you avoid being the type of person a thief targets? Is it a brawny/threatening look, or just not using an iPhone in public?

Not the OP but when I'm overseas I try to blend in in terms of attire and so on (dress down and don't be flashy). I mean, dress like normal locals dress.

Basically don't stick out as a shining target.

Re: Not Just Mike Pence. Americans Are Wary of Being Alone with the Opposite Sex

#44

Post by axaxs »

rufford wrote: post #29

It's a cultural issue with Americans. There seems to be a belief there that equality is not really equality but a battle of the genders imo. Women and men alike obsess over the differences and have very traditional dating structures/marriages. Gender equality in Europe makes the states look like a joke

Hit the nail on the head. Americans are in constant battle, whether sex, sexual orientation, race, religion, etc. It's not as 'equal' as it seems, and if it is, it's because persons go out of their way to cater to those groups. It would be nicer just to see them no differently at all, but I digress.

Re: Not Just Mike Pence. Americans Are Wary of Being Alone with the Opposite Sex

#45

Post by jlos »

mc32 wrote: post #3

What are people so uptight about? Not that I understand why, but it makes some sense if religious people are somehow shy to that, but atheists? Are people afraid of perception or afraid of misinterpretation or afraid physically, are there that many unhinged people out there? You can totally make friends with people of the same sex you are generally sexually attracted to and it does not mean or have to end up in a wei…

It helps to understand features of conservative religious communities:

1) sex, marriage, and family are still inseparably linked and are believed to be foundational to life and human flourishing. Thus, breaking marital vows reflects a profound failure of character. 2) individuals within Convervative Christian have a deep mistrust of their own capacity to resist moral failures.

From my conversations, the individual isn't avoiding awkward situations but fears that, should a mutual attraction develop, he would potentially lack the moral resolve to stay faithful.

Interestingly enough, I've talked to a few conservative Christian counselors with 25+ years of counselling experience about this issue. They all responded that they actually felt more strongly than when they started counseling about avoiding circumstances that would allow romantic relationships to develop because they had seen so many people ruin their families, reputations, and careers this way.

Outside Christian communities, sex, family, and marriage are not inherently related so the priorities seem bizarre or sexist. it largely boils down to a different understand of what it means to he human.

Re: Not Just Mike Pence. Americans Are Wary of Being Alone with the Opposite Sex

#46

Post by vacri »

dijit wrote: post #6

I seem to be the only person in the comments that agrees with the article. But I'm not American. I will absolutely not be alone with a female as a male if I can help it. One accusation of ill-doing on my part and my life is essentially over. Conversely; as a male a female is quite likely weaker than I am, thus the risk to them is that I cause them injury or force them to do something. Which is a horrendous thought an…

> Remind me never to air my concerns in public again.

If losing a couple of imaginary internet points is all it takes to retract your comments... how strongly do you hold those opinions in the first place?

Downvotes just mean disagreement. If more people disagree than agree with you, well, welcome to the ghosted text. But so what? It just means that your opinion is a minority opinion amongst the people who cared enough to click one way or the other.

Re: Not Just Mike Pence. Americans Are Wary of Being Alone with the Opposite Sex

#47

Post by home_boi »

vkou wrote: post #36
aiyodev wrote: post #20

I'm surprised so many men in here are comfortable being alone with women. You've given another person the power to put you in prison and destroy your entire life at any time without any evidence. All they have to do is make the accusation. You'll lose your job. You'll probably lose your family. You'll probably lose your freedom. It's not worth the risk.

> You'll lose your job. The default outcome in he-said-she-said, no other proof is no action from HR. On the other hand, if it's he-said-she-said-she-also-said-she-also-said-she-also-said... Or if it's he-said-she-said-and-also-has-texts-and-emails... People involved in the latter two... Do love to claim that it was just he-said-she-said. Until the counterparty brings undisputable evidence to the table.

> The default outcome in he-said-she-said, no other proof is no action from HR.

There needs to be more justification to this statement. What happens in HR is basically a black box to most people.

Re: Not Just Mike Pence. Americans Are Wary of Being Alone with the Opposite Sex

#48

Post by tluyben2 »

speedplane wrote: post #42
swiley wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah the drink thing is definitely inappropriate.

There are a lot of ways it could be made appropriate, e.g., group setting, a long work-history together, very equal power dynamic. But the idea of a superior bringing out a female for a drink one-on-one is almost certainly a recipe for disaster. Go for lunch, coffee, or a game of golf instead.

You are talking about a superior; then you have to be a bit more careful. What if equal colleagues? I cannot why that is a problem. It is just a drink.

Re: Not Just Mike Pence. Americans Are Wary of Being Alone with the Opposite Sex

#49

Post by sillysaurus3 »

cbanek wrote: post #30
meric wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the situations where the manager and the managed are of the opposite sex and one or both are aware of their own ethical and spiritual vulnerabilities maybe it'd be a good idea to have a 2:1 or 1:2 instead of a 1:1.

I hope you're joking, but if you're not, that sounds like a horrible idea to me. Being a woman, and having had 1:1's with male managers for pretty much my entire tech career, I've never heard of this happening. I don't know what spiritual vulnerabilities you are talking about, but in terms of ethics if you can't work with a female employee, you shouldn't be a manager. You're basically telling the person that you can'…

It's not really about trust. It's just business and mutual protection.

I'm not sure which way to feel on the issue, but it's hard to deny that the recently reported harassment happened while both the victim and the abuser were alone together, or shared a private channel of communication. If you eliminate this aspect, you might eliminate the harassment along with it. That seems like a positive outcome.

In practice, that may not be achievable, or it might be a bad idea for other reasons. But anything that results in a positive impact seems worth considering.

Re: Not Just Mike Pence. Americans Are Wary of Being Alone with the Opposite Sex

#50

Post by cbanek »

prostoalex wrote: post #15
cbanek wrote: post #4

I'm really amazed that the data is that close for "having a work meeting." (25% of women say inappropriate vs 22% of men) That's a lot higher than I was expecting. It makes me wonder why as well. Is it just "inappropriate" (what I imagine Mike Pence thinks)? Does one side think the other side is trying to do something inappropriate or is trying to lead into something? At least in many jobs I've had, 1:1's were basica…

"At least in many [white-collar office-with-glass-door easy-access-to-legal-and-HR-departments harassment-training-mandated-as-part-of-the-orientation coworkers-not-prone-to-gossip] jobs I've had."

I'm not sure I see what point you are trying to make?

It's been shown, especially recently, that HR and legal are not necessarily on the side of employees wronged by sexism in the workplace. Harassment training is an ongoing joke.

Or are you saying in other jobs men and women are less likely to work together alone, so people might think it's more inappropriate?

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