Two surprises about this article: 1 - 25% of women think it's inappropriate to have a work meeting with a man. 2 - 41% of men think it's appropriate to have a drink one-on-one with a women.
Not Just Mike Pence. Americans Are Wary of Being Alone with the Opposite Sex
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Re: Not Just Mike Pence. Americans Are Wary of Being Alone with the Opposite Sex
#32Sex is one of the greatest things both now and in the past of bringing out stupid behavior in people. The number of people who have destroyed their wealth, jobs, and/or reputations is staggering. It is not just of matter of more training or consequences. Even with such punishment as being impaled alive http://www.executedtoday.com/2017/03/15/1718-stepan-glebov-l... or with the threat of eternal damnation, people stil…
As dumb as it is, it's also the only reason you are alive. Some people see their main goal in life as to find the best partner they can.
Sex is closely related IMO.
Re: Not Just Mike Pence. Americans Are Wary of Being Alone with the Opposite Sex
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'll speak up with an example from a man's perspective; it has nothing to do with attraction or religion, it's just not worth the risk. If I'm one-on-one with a woman and a misunderstanding makes her feel uncomfortable or threatened and she accuses me of misconduct or sexual harassment I'm at an enormous disadvantage without any witnesses. When even being accused could be career ending it's best to bring someone else…
I understand your PoV. I would say it would be extremely rare for a woman (or man) to make baseless accusations from uncertain interpretations. People who bring forward accusations are typically people who've had the same untoward thing done to them repeatedly. That said, one has to acknowledge there are genuinely malicious people --but they typically have a pattern and it will not be their first time making false ac…
>> People who bring forward accusations are typically people who've had the same untoward thing done to them repeatedly.
Sounds like you've already pre-inclined towards a guilty party then, before you even heard evidence from both sides. And if there is no evidence, the man is in a world of trouble.
I have personally witnessed a man in the office be fired for "sexual harassment" shortly after escalating an accounting audit issue. Convenient timing and very effective way of dealing with an accounting issue.
Re: Not Just Mike Pence. Americans Are Wary of Being Alone with the Opposite Sex
#34I'm surprised so many men in here are comfortable being alone with women. You've given another person the power to put you in prison and destroy your entire life at any time without any evidence. All they have to do is make the accusation. You'll lose your job. You'll probably lose your family. You'll probably lose your freedom. It's not worth the risk.
Such an irrational fear, like worrying about getting hit by lightning on the way to the shops.
Also goodluck convincing anyone that I sexually assaulted someone. People wouldn't be able to take you seriously after a claim like that.
Re: Not Just Mike Pence. Americans Are Wary of Being Alone with the Opposite Sex
#35Here in Japan I regularly hear about women or families saying Japan isn't as safe as it appears. I never understood it, because the data doesn't back it up, and I've never experienced any trouble in nearly 5 years here. I don't have a TV. When I catch TV though, the news programs can harp on a minor crime here in Tokyo like a convenience store robbery for a good thiry minutes. These friends watch a lot of TV. I think…
I live in Phnom Penh and I'd say the crime here is about as bad as an average larger American city, but in a different way. There is more petty crime, especially theft. I've lived here 4 years and never had any problem really, but I see visitors and expats alike getting robbed frequently. I've avoided it because I don't carry anything worth stealing and I am not the type of person that thieves target.
How do you avoid being the type of person a thief targets? Is it a brawny/threatening look, or just not using an iPhone in public?
Re: Not Just Mike Pence. Americans Are Wary of Being Alone with the Opposite Sex
#36I'm surprised so many men in here are comfortable being alone with women. You've given another person the power to put you in prison and destroy your entire life at any time without any evidence. All they have to do is make the accusation. You'll lose your job. You'll probably lose your family. You'll probably lose your freedom. It's not worth the risk.
> You'll lose your job.
The default outcome in he-said-she-said, no other proof is no action from HR.
On the other hand, if it's he-said-she-said-she-also-said-she-also-said-she-also-said...
Or if it's he-said-she-said-and-also-has-texts-and-emails...
People involved in the latter two... Do love to claim that it was just he-said-she-said. Until the counterparty brings undisputable evidence to the table.
Re: Not Just Mike Pence. Americans Are Wary of Being Alone with the Opposite Sex
#37Two surprises about this article: 1 - 25% of women think it's inappropriate to have a work meeting with a man. 2 - 41% of men think it's appropriate to have a drink one-on-one with a women.
Yeah the drink thing is definitely inappropriate.
Re: Not Just Mike Pence. Americans Are Wary of Being Alone with the Opposite Sex
#38I wrote this when the Pence story broke in March.
>>>>>>>>>
I wanted to write this yesterday, but thankfully I didn't, because Jia Tolentino did a much better job than I would have in the New Yorker.
http://www.newyorker.com/culture/jia-tolentino/mike-pences-m...
What bothers me about Pence's "no meals alone with women who aren't my wife" and "no working late with female aides" rules isn't that he's trying to protect women from himself. He rightly understands that he's a powerful man, and many women have been harmed, sexually or otherwise, by people remarkably like him. Kudos to Mike Pence for getting that, even if he also doesn't get that many men have been harmed in just the same way.
What bothers me is that he (apparently) pays no heed to the question of how to protect women from himself while still ensuring they can have equitable careers. "You go home, honey; Jack will stay and help me" is saying that women and men have different roles to play in Pence's staff, and that's quintessential sexism (and may be illegal). And as the article points out, "no successful woman could ever abide by [Pence's no-meals-alone rule]."
Anyway this article frames the issue really well.
Re: Not Just Mike Pence. Americans Are Wary of Being Alone with the Opposite Sex
#39I'm really amazed that the data is that close for "having a work meeting." (25% of women say inappropriate vs 22% of men) That's a lot higher than I was expecting. It makes me wonder why as well. Is it just "inappropriate" (what I imagine Mike Pence thinks)? Does one side think the other side is trying to do something inappropriate or is trying to lead into something? At least in many jobs I've had, 1:1's were basica…
For the situations where the manager and the managed are of the opposite sex and one or both are aware of their own ethical and spiritual vulnerabilities maybe it'd be a good idea to have a 2:1 or 1:2 instead of a 1:1.
That presumably puts a real damper on the sort of direct communication and private feedback 1:1s are supposed to support.
Re: Not Just Mike Pence. Americans Are Wary of Being Alone with the Opposite Sex
#40I'm surprised so many men in here are comfortable being alone with women. You've given another person the power to put you in prison and destroy your entire life at any time without any evidence. All they have to do is make the accusation. You'll lose your job. You'll probably lose your family. You'll probably lose your freedom. It's not worth the risk.
What a way to live... From the US are you? Nothing wrong with that but it seems a US thing. How can we close the gender gap when people think like you?