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Microsoft Pledges to Use ARM Server Chips, Threatening Intel's Dominance

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Re: Microsoft Pledges to Use ARM Server Chips, Threatening Intel's Dominance

#41

Post by ajross »

inyorgroove wrote: post #29
rb808 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are fewer binary apps these days though. Java/Scala, C#/F#, JS, Python, Erlang should all be fine.

Don't most docker containers contain x86 binaries?

Of course, which is sort of the point: ARM is way behind with Linux packaging and distribution. Every vendor has their little tarball of junk that runs on their SoC or device or whatever. There's no architecture-unified distro you can install on everything. And this is where it gets hurt, because while Raspberry Pi can get away with handing out tarballs, no one is going to bet a datacenter install on anything other than RHEL or Ubuntu or whatever.

Re: Microsoft Pledges to Use ARM Server Chips, Threatening Intel's Dominance

#42

Post by the-dude »

imglorp wrote: post #35

This could well be a negotiating strategy to rejigger the relationship with Intel. Dell did exactly the same thing a number of times for similar reasons. So all you do is: put out some press releases, ramp up some hires, put out some glossy product roadmaps. Intel starts to get separation anxiety and flinches: well, maybe they can afford to come closer to AMD prices for another year. They kiss up and you back out of…

Ah, just like governments threaten to use Linux to rejigger MS.

Re: Microsoft Pledges to Use ARM Server Chips, Threatening Intel's Dominance

#43

Post by my123 »

ajross wrote: post #41
inyorgroove wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't most docker containers contain x86 binaries?

Of course, which is sort of the point: ARM is way behind with Linux packaging and distribution. Every vendor has their little tarball of junk that runs on their SoC or device or whatever. There's no architecture-unified distro you can install on everything. And this is where it gets hurt, because while Raspberry Pi can get away with handing out tarballs, no one is going to bet a datacenter install on anything other t…

ARM and ARM64 Windows uses UEFI and ACPI, with the same OS images for everyone.

Re: Microsoft Pledges to Use ARM Server Chips, Threatening Intel's Dominance

#44

Post by my123 »

delinka wrote: post #28
frozenport wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would think any cost per performance advantage would be lost.

I don't think you'd run an entire OS like this. But some processes might not have been ported to ARM and those need an emulation layer. Think Apple's Rosetta for running PowerPC binaries on Intel processors to make the switch less painful.

ARM and ARM64 Windows are 100% native code out of the box. On ARM64, the translation engine might be disabled if you really want to.

Re: Microsoft Pledges to Use ARM Server Chips, Threatening Intel's Dominance

#46

Post by keth »

my123 wrote: post #15
zbjornson wrote: post #7

Competition is great, but this also seems like a rather big setback to the goal of having multi-cloud applications, in instances where the app can only run on x86-64.

AMD designs are used as a part of the design, and AMD has shown x86 and ARM chips which fit in the same sockets

Project Skybridge was cancelled as far as I know. [0] Not sure if we see something like that in the future, considering how quiet AMD is about their ARM plans. Although a ARM chip with really good power efficency would be nice below Ryzen.

  Finally, we’ll note that this roadmap is empty of any mentions of project Skybridge. CEO Lisa Su has commented that AMD has decided to change their focus away from Skybridge based on customer feedback. Customers were telling AMD that they didn't necessarily need socket compatible solutions, so AMD is going to work on differentiated solutions. That said, given that Skybridge was announced last year and planned for 20nm, I suspect that it has also become a victim of the short lifespan (and underperforming nature) of 20nm, leading to it being downplayed in favor of 14nm prodcts.
[0] http://www.anandtech.com/show/9231/amds-20162017-x86-roadmap...

Re: Microsoft Pledges to Use ARM Server Chips, Threatening Intel's Dominance

#47

Post by hollerith »

gigatexal wrote: post #45

This is awesome: with a renewed AMD and now ARM gaining another big proponent (Apple being the first imo) there might finally be some real competition to Intel's place at the top.

Samsung and Qualcomm aren't big proponents of ARM?

Re: Microsoft Pledges to Use ARM Server Chips, Threatening Intel's Dominance

#48

Post by keth »

deagle50 wrote: post #26
AlphaSite wrote: post #21

Im very curious how this will work for AMD with their K12 chip. They will have high performance x86_64 and AARCH64 chips.

Last I read K12 was cancelled.

Maybe you mean Skybridge? The last I read K12 was only delayed until 2017/2018 (but Skybridge was cancelled).

Re: Microsoft Pledges to Use ARM Server Chips, Threatening Intel's Dominance

#49

Post by vvanders »

imglorp wrote: post #35

This could well be a negotiating strategy to rejigger the relationship with Intel. Dell did exactly the same thing a number of times for similar reasons. So all you do is: put out some press releases, ramp up some hires, put out some glossy product roadmaps. Intel starts to get separation anxiety and flinches: well, maybe they can afford to come closer to AMD prices for another year. They kiss up and you back out of…

This is pretty par for the course in a lot of HW companies(esp SoC selection). Where it gets tricky is when you've pulled that move a couple times and then it turns out AMD/ARM/etc actually have the good chips.

At that point you've burned the other company so many times by changing at the last minute that it becomes hard to get real support and engagement where you actually need it.

Re: Microsoft Pledges to Use ARM Server Chips, Threatening Intel's Dominance

#50

Post by mtgx »

imglorp wrote: post #35

This could well be a negotiating strategy to rejigger the relationship with Intel. Dell did exactly the same thing a number of times for similar reasons. So all you do is: put out some press releases, ramp up some hires, put out some glossy product roadmaps. Intel starts to get separation anxiety and flinches: well, maybe they can afford to come closer to AMD prices for another year. They kiss up and you back out of…

Not quite. They've been working together for a few years to do this. Qualcomm even based its motherboard design off of Microsoft's Project Olympus.

> QDT has been working with Microsoft for several years on ARM-based server enablement and has onsite engineering at Microsoft to collaboratively optimize a version of Windows Server, for Microsoft’s internal use in its data centers, on Qualcomm Centriq 2400-based systems. QDT’s OCP submission is the result of a multi-faceted, multi-level engagement between the two companies to facilitate ARM adoption into the data center. It encompasses multiple areas of hardware and software including board development, firmware, operating system, compilers and tools, and CoreCLR.

https://www.qualcomm.com/news/releases/2017/03/08/qualcomm-c...

Also, I doubt Microsoft went through the trouble of supporting full x86 programs on Qualcomm's ARM chips just to improve the relationship with Intel. If anything, finally bringing ARM to not just servers, but Windows notebooks is what will make Intel even angrier with Microsoft.

So far, the main reason why ARM couldn't enter the PC market was the Windows lock-in - if x86 programs wouldn't work on ARM, then they had no chance (save for UWP apps gaining huge popularity, which hasn't happened yet, and I don't expect to happen for at least a few more years, if ever).

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