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How Eve unifies your entire programming stack

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Re: How Eve unifies your entire programming stack

#41

Post by fsloth »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #12
ilostmykeys wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't you just make that app for iOS/Android and let food truck owners download it? I know that is a useless thing to suggest given your intent but I think it's equally useless for food truck owners to want to build their own app. There must be a better range of use cases.

You were flagged but this is a great question. I think the more useful ability for the food truck operator is the ability to modify the software their business runs on, not the ability to build it from scratch. Imagine everything on everyone's desk was bolted to it, and you could only choose between a few desk packages. Someone comes along and says "people should be able to put together their own desk packages!" But…

"no one really knows what people would exactly do with the ability to modify their software."

I think we do. Excel, and the various systems implemented on top of it. To my understanding systems built on top of Excel are used to run all sorts of things, even live hardware, because it's so approachable and easy to modify.

Perhaps Eve can be 'sold' to the industries that rely on Excel. First the project can just add @excel database....

Re: How Eve unifies your entire programming stack

#42

Post by pron »

Liron wrote: post #15
dicedog wrote: post #10

I'm excited for Eve and next-gen programming languages but as details emerge, it seems like it could easily have been a few libraries and an architecture pattern in most other functional programming languages. When I first learn about things like the continuation monad or CQRS, I have similar reinvent-the-world fantasies but it's often sufficient to expand my toolkit and change my style (in full disclojure ;-), my de…

I think your point is valid in general, but Eve's semantics are deeply rooted in Logic Programming. IMO that's a more fundamental change than what we can hope to get from layering a pattern/library/architecture on top of an existing database or programming language.

> but Eve's semantics are deeply rooted in Logic Programming

... and synchronous programming. Eve is a synchronous relational (or logic) language.

Re: How Eve unifies your entire programming stack

#43

Post by dkarapetyan »

cmontella wrote: post #9
dkarapetyan wrote: post #8

How does one package and deploy an Eve application to some cloud infrastructure for example?

[Eve member] That's in the PR pipeline right now, you can track it here: https://github.com/witheve/Eve/pull/571 Although I should mention, Eve is super early Alpha right now, so don't deploy anything you will be depending on!

Cool. Good to know it is in the pipeline.

Re: How Eve unifies your entire programming stack

#44

Post by fsloth »

tonyg wrote: post #38
ilostmykeys wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't you just make that app for iOS/Android and let food truck owners download it? I know that is a useless thing to suggest given your intent but I think it's equally useless for food truck owners to want to build their own app. There must be a better range of use cases.

Do you think that, generally, if someone needs an app to do something they've just thought of, that there should exist some way for them to build it themselves? If not, why not? We will know the age of "personal computing" has truly arrived when such things are possible. At the moment, our hypothetical food truck owner (and many, many more people I know personally) are at the mercy of others, frustrated and unable to…

Less complex programming systems have existed for decades for PC. Excel, Matlab, Mathematica and so on.

I don't think anyone denies they've brought tremendous value to professionals in need of some ad hoc programs.

Re: How Eve unifies your entire programming stack

#45

Post by Joky »

GavinMcG wrote: post #35
erichocean wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because to qualify as "the entire stack", you need to be able to talk to the kernel efficiently, which in practice means: call into C without overhead. I have no problem with what Eve is doing, but it's not "the entire stack" and with Eve's paradigm, never will be. And that's okay—just stop calling it "the entire stack".

Fine, but why without overhead? You're not addressing that. Why can't it unify the stack while making things slightly less efficient? It's not as though all of the things we need to do as programmers are constrained by computation resources.

It depends what is meant by "unify" and what is the "stack". What I just read that a language is meant to "unify the full stack", I think I'll be able to rewrite with it any piece of the stack used, including my graphic driver, the network stack, etc. I believe most modern application are relying on underlying elements of "the stack" that need to be fast/low latency enough when interacting with each other. Unfortunately the C ABI is still king there...

Re: How Eve unifies your entire programming stack

#47

Post by gpsx »

ibdknox wrote: post #3
tedajax wrote: post #2

Yeah until I really see some practical applications written in Eve I don't think I'm ever going to really get it. It's nothing against Eve, it might be great, but nothing I've seen about it so far as really captured my imagination and I'm wondering if I'm just missing something.

[Eve member] Out of curiosity, what would you classify as a practical application? We're looking for some interesting examples to build to help show Eve to folks. EDIT: For instance, one of the examples we're throwing together now is an app that a food truck owner could use to put up their menu, manage a queue of orders (in person and online), alert people when their order is ready, accept payments, and post to socia…

Example apps are great, but you could just use it for real software. That makes the best examples.

Re: How Eve unifies your entire programming stack

#48

Post by tnecniv »

pron wrote: post #42
Liron wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your point is valid in general, but Eve's semantics are deeply rooted in Logic Programming. IMO that's a more fundamental change than what we can hope to get from layering a pattern/library/architecture on top of an existing database or programming language.

> but Eve's semantics are deeply rooted in Logic Programming ... and synchronous programming. Eve is a synchronous relational (or logic) language.

Wouldn't this be asynchronous since there is no ordering unless explicitly constructed, or are we using different semantics?

Re: How Eve unifies your entire programming stack

#50

Post by fit2rule »

ibdknox wrote: post #3
tedajax wrote: post #2

Yeah until I really see some practical applications written in Eve I don't think I'm ever going to really get it. It's nothing against Eve, it might be great, but nothing I've seen about it so far as really captured my imagination and I'm wondering if I'm just missing something.

[Eve member] Out of curiosity, what would you classify as a practical application? We're looking for some interesting examples to build to help show Eve to folks. EDIT: For instance, one of the examples we're throwing together now is an app that a food truck owner could use to put up their menu, manage a queue of orders (in person and online), alert people when their order is ready, accept payments, and post to socia…

>Also, who doesn't love food trucks?

Europeans. Please add a Döner- or Würstel- stand model.

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