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Why Electric Cars Will Be Here Sooner Than You Think

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Re: Why Electric Cars Will Be Here Sooner Than You Think

#41

Post by aschobel »

kylec wrote: post #17

I was talking to my father a few weeks ago about electric cars, and I wanted to quantify how much going electric would save him so I ran some numbers. Where he lives gas is currently somewhere around $2.20/gallon. His car gets around 30mpg combined, so he's paying ~$0.073/mile. Tesla's website contains a "charging estimator" for the Model S, which estimates a cost of $12.04 for a total charge of 300 miles in a 90D. I…

Many utility companies have special rate plans for EV charging. Electricity is incredibly expensive in San Francisco but PG&E has a special rate plan that is only $0.11/kWh if you charge after 11pm.

https://www.pge.com/tariffs/tm2/pdf/ELEC_SCHEDS_EV.pdf

Does the utility that serves your father have a similar EV plan?

Re: Why Electric Cars Will Be Here Sooner Than You Think

#42

Post by euroclydon »

PhantomGremlin wrote: post #30
kylec wrote: post #17

I was talking to my father a few weeks ago about electric cars, and I wanted to quantify how much going electric would save him so I ran some numbers. Where he lives gas is currently somewhere around $2.20/gallon. His car gets around 30mpg combined, so he's paying ~$0.073/mile. Tesla's website contains a "charging estimator" for the Model S, which estimates a cost of $12.04 for a total charge of 300 miles in a 90D. I…

I had always assumed that electricity was far cheaper than gasoline As you note, in many places electricity is far from cheap. Also you need to amortize the cost difference of a Tesla vs a conventional car. That's hard to justify as long as a Tesla costs in the neighborhood of $100,000. But, perhaps generate that electricity on your rooftop! The utilities have lobbied effectively to lower the feed-in prices they must…

Unfortunately, me and my car are at work when the sun is shining on my rooftop.

Re: Why Electric Cars Will Be Here Sooner Than You Think

#43

Post by ChuckMcM »

kylec wrote: post #17

I was talking to my father a few weeks ago about electric cars, and I wanted to quantify how much going electric would save him so I ran some numbers. Where he lives gas is currently somewhere around $2.20/gallon. His car gets around 30mpg combined, so he's paying ~$0.073/mile. Tesla's website contains a "charging estimator" for the Model S, which estimates a cost of $12.04 for a total charge of 300 miles in a 90D. I…

I did a similar calculation (CA power is wayy expensive). There are additional considerations however, which is 'overhead gas' (or gas spent going to and from the gas station) not a lot but its something you don't buy if you charge at home, and "price fluctuations", buying gas has literally gone from $2 to nearly $5 back to nearly $2 over 5 years. My electricity has gone up slightly over those same 5 years. From a "predictive" point of view, it helps that it doesn't fluctuate as much.

Under the category of 'hacks' is the story of the guy who uses heating oil from the house boiler to run a generator which charges his electric car. Heating oil is generally sold without any of the associated gas taxes and so cheaper per gallon than #2 diesel at the pump.

Re: Why Electric Cars Will Be Here Sooner Than You Think

#44

Post by andykellr »

Unless Tesla goes out of business and nobody manages to produce a similar electric car, I will never buy a gas car again. Electric cars are quick, fun, quiet, clean, safe, and convenient. It would feel like a big step backwards for me to buy a gas car again.

They're not for everyone right now and I think it will take a long time to reach significant penetration, but more people will try it and many will never go back.

Re: Why Electric Cars Will Be Here Sooner Than You Think

#45

Post by foxylad »

I just bought a 2014 Nissan Leaf. It's excellent and I'd recommend one (with a couple of caveats, see below).

A few (hopefully) interesting comments:

There's no premium for being "cool" or "green" any more. It cost 26,000 NZD for a 2014 Japanese import, which is about the same as an ICE (internal combustion engine) two-year-year-old mid-level vehicle costs (yes, NZ car prices are mad). And I'm guessing the trend will continue and they will soon be significantly cheaper.

The real savings will come from maintenance. Apart from battery chemistry, an EV is far simpler than an ICE. You don't need to pump noxious fluids around, no oil, no complex transmission... just an electric motor connected directly to the wheels. Not even any brake pads, thanks to engine braking. If you know a mechanic, tell them to start pivoting to ICE car rental for EV owners wanting to take long trips; EV battery replacement; charging station installation; and providing a mobile EV fast-charging service.

It's just a car. If you buy one expecting a radically different experience, it might be an anticlimax. Yes, it's cool the first couple of times you roar off (great acceleration, BTW) without any roar, but you quickly realise it's the exact same thing you've done thousands of times before. Your granddad won't have any difficulty the first time he drives one.

Caveats:

You need off street parking. I don't think it's ever going to be acceptable to run electric cables across footpaths, so unless you can park on own your property you'll need to figure out how to charge the darn thing. Maybe chargers will become a perk of working in an office one day, and there is probably a good business in installing charging stations for employers and shopping destinations.

They aren't good for long distances. Duh. Unless you have a Tesla, in which case I hate you! You will probably be able to use an EV for 95% of your driving, but you will have to have a contingency plan for any long trips you make. Currently we find neighbours are more than willing to swap their ICE car for an EV for the weekend, but I think there is potential for a very local car hire service to handle this requirement.

Re: Why Electric Cars Will Be Here Sooner Than You Think

#46

Post by msandford »

Twirrim wrote: post #19
dpweb wrote: post #3

All for electric cars here, but think a minute about the convienence of gasoline auto travel, especially refueling at a gas station. They must get electric charging stations everywhere, but they also must reduce the 30 to 60 min. Recharging time. Gas is what 2 minutes? Especially in the age of tech and gadgets people will not stand for LESS convienence, only more. Replacing gas will take a while.

Some 90% of journeys by vehicle are under 100 miles, well within the range distance of an electric car, a sizeable number of those being your daily commute. The amount you save in gas money alone would easily pay for a gasoline rental for those occasions where you really do need more and can't possibly stand to wait for a recharge. Alternatively things like the Chevy Volt exist which get you that interesting pairing…

If it was 99.9% of all trips were under 100 miles then it'd be much easier. But I make between 5-10 trips a week. Statistically I'm going to have a range anxiety situation a few times a month, while making a car payment that's 6x higher.

Re: Why Electric Cars Will Be Here Sooner Than You Think

#47

Post by kylec »

aschobel wrote: post #41
kylec wrote: post #17

I was talking to my father a few weeks ago about electric cars, and I wanted to quantify how much going electric would save him so I ran some numbers. Where he lives gas is currently somewhere around $2.20/gallon. His car gets around 30mpg combined, so he's paying ~$0.073/mile. Tesla's website contains a "charging estimator" for the Model S, which estimates a cost of $12.04 for a total charge of 300 miles in a 90D. I…

Many utility companies have special rate plans for EV charging. Electricity is incredibly expensive in San Francisco but PG&E has a special rate plan that is only $0.11/kWh if you charge after 11pm. https://www.pge.com/tariffs/tm2/pdf/ELEC_SCHEDS_EV.pdf Does the utility that serves your father have a similar EV plan?

I doubt it. I checked their website (http://www.emeramaine.com) and I couldn't find anything about a special EV rate.

Re: Why Electric Cars Will Be Here Sooner Than You Think

#49

Post by kylec »

l0neranger wrote: post #33
kylec wrote: post #17

I was talking to my father a few weeks ago about electric cars, and I wanted to quantify how much going electric would save him so I ran some numbers. Where he lives gas is currently somewhere around $2.20/gallon. His car gets around 30mpg combined, so he's paying ~$0.073/mile. Tesla's website contains a "charging estimator" for the Model S, which estimates a cost of $12.04 for a total charge of 300 miles in a 90D. I…

Wouldn't the increase in demand for electricity also increase the price? Also, if the majority of consumers start switching to electric, I'm pretty sure the automobile and oil companies will respond. Not that that's a bad thing or anything.

It's hard to say, utilities can't just jack up their prices whenever they want. However, it's possible that there might be capacity issues, where there's more demand for electricity at peak times than can be generated.

Re: Why Electric Cars Will Be Here Sooner Than You Think

#50

Post by jeffbush »

jschwartzi wrote: post #20
dpweb wrote: post #3

All for electric cars here, but think a minute about the convienence of gasoline auto travel, especially refueling at a gas station. They must get electric charging stations everywhere, but they also must reduce the 30 to 60 min. Recharging time. Gas is what 2 minutes? Especially in the age of tech and gadgets people will not stand for LESS convienence, only more. Replacing gas will take a while.

It will happen, eventually, though. It's starting with the affluent. Anyone who can afford a house with a garage is capable of buying a charger and having it installed. As that happens, charger prices go down and they get better. As more affluent people buy electric cars, they will also get cheaper and better. Unlike Hydrogen and Ethanol, electricity and batteries are well-known technologies that most people have bee…

"The only problem is that electric cars won't do anything directly to mitigate global warming, because they will still be powered largely by fossil fuel."

But electrical generation is more efficient than an internal combustion engine in terms of carbon output. According to PG&E:

"Additionally, from well to wheel, electric vehicles emit approximately 66 percent less carbon dioxide (CO2) compared with internal combustion vehicles. CO2 is the principal gas associated with global warming."

https://www.pge.com/en_US/residential/solar-and-vehicles/opt...

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