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Why Electric Cars Will Be Here Sooner Than You Think

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Re: Why Electric Cars Will Be Here Sooner Than You Think

#31

Post by jeffbush »

dpweb wrote: post #3

All for electric cars here, but think a minute about the convienence of gasoline auto travel, especially refueling at a gas station. They must get electric charging stations everywhere, but they also must reduce the 30 to 60 min. Recharging time. Gas is what 2 minutes? Especially in the age of tech and gadgets people will not stand for LESS convienence, only more. Replacing gas will take a while.

I've had a Leaf for going on a year now and one thing I love about it is that I never need to worry about the inconvenience of stopping at a gas station. :)

But I'm with you that I don't really see the point of public charging stations. All the places I drive during the day are within my ~100 mile range (putting a charger at a grocery store, as they mention in the article, makes little sense given that). If I needed to drive somewhere that was not in my range, I sure as heck wouldn't gamble on one of the few charger stations being available.

Re: Why Electric Cars Will Be Here Sooner Than You Think

#32

Post by kharms »

sitharus wrote: post #27
kylec wrote: post #17

I was talking to my father a few weeks ago about electric cars, and I wanted to quantify how much going electric would save him so I ran some numbers. Where he lives gas is currently somewhere around $2.20/gallon. His car gets around 30mpg combined, so he's paying ~$0.073/mile. Tesla's website contains a "charging estimator" for the Model S, which estimates a cost of $12.04 for a total charge of 300 miles in a 90D. I…

However, a gasoline powered car also takes engine oil and transmission fluid if it's an automatic. It will also require regular servicing of the engine and eventual replacement of worn seals etc. If the fuel cost per mile is the same the electric car could still be cheaper. I can't say how much though, because that depends on the servicing cost per year vs the battery replacement cost and that depends on your local s…

The battery in a Tesla costs $12k-40k to replace, though it's under warranty for 8 years.

Re: Why Electric Cars Will Be Here Sooner Than You Think

#33

Post by l0neranger »

kylec wrote: post #17

I was talking to my father a few weeks ago about electric cars, and I wanted to quantify how much going electric would save him so I ran some numbers. Where he lives gas is currently somewhere around $2.20/gallon. His car gets around 30mpg combined, so he's paying ~$0.073/mile. Tesla's website contains a "charging estimator" for the Model S, which estimates a cost of $12.04 for a total charge of 300 miles in a 90D. I…

Wouldn't the increase in demand for electricity also increase the price? Also, if the majority of consumers start switching to electric, I'm pretty sure the automobile and oil companies will respond. Not that that's a bad thing or anything.

Re: Why Electric Cars Will Be Here Sooner Than You Think

#34

Post by ourmandave »

Gibbon1 wrote: post #23
gremlinsinc wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah, and maybe they should factor in the average car bought and sold, there's still a LOT of car owners/buyers that stick to the used lots.

You can buy a fairly low mileage used Nissan Leaf for approximately $10,000 right now. Look on Craigslist take your pick. For the life of me I cannot imagine why you wouldn't be able to buy the same cars for $5,000 five years from now.

The warranty on the battery pack is 60 months / 60,000 miles. A replacement battery costs $5,500 plus taxes and labor. I wonder how many on Craigslist don't want to write that check.

Re: Why Electric Cars Will Be Here Sooner Than You Think

#35

Post by Spooky23 »

kylec wrote: post #17

I was talking to my father a few weeks ago about electric cars, and I wanted to quantify how much going electric would save him so I ran some numbers. Where he lives gas is currently somewhere around $2.20/gallon. His car gets around 30mpg combined, so he's paying ~$0.073/mile. Tesla's website contains a "charging estimator" for the Model S, which estimates a cost of $12.04 for a total charge of 300 miles in a 90D. I…

I disagree. Fuel is only one part of a car's cost. The capital expense, maintenance and insurance are other costs.

You pay a really high premium for electrics. If you insist on buying a new car, the TCO of a Honda Fit or similar car will be lower than an electric, and you avoid whatever bullshit that you need to deal with from the vendor (i.e. Using the dealer for all repairs) and dealing with charging stations and carrying the various adapters.

Re: Why Electric Cars Will Be Here Sooner Than You Think

#36

Post by kylec »

tjbiddle wrote: post #21
kylec wrote: post #17

I was talking to my father a few weeks ago about electric cars, and I wanted to quantify how much going electric would save him so I ran some numbers. Where he lives gas is currently somewhere around $2.20/gallon. His car gets around 30mpg combined, so he's paying ~$0.073/mile. Tesla's website contains a "charging estimator" for the Model S, which estimates a cost of $12.04 for a total charge of 300 miles in a 90D. I…

But of course, this is specific to your father's scenario. A quick Google search shows the average cost of electricity in the US actually is $0.12/kWh.

Of course, but I would encourage anyone that's thinking about getting an electric car to figure out what they're paying for electricity and run the numbers to understand what the cost impact is.

To add another anecdata point, I live in the San Jose area and I just checked my latest PG&E bill; It's kind of complicated because there's a weird tier system, but I paid a weighted average of $0.2095/kWh last month. However, if I were to get an electric car, the additional electricity it would use would come from the top tier, which is $0.2409/kWh. Then again, gas is ~$2.80/gallon, so electric would still be cheaper, but not by much.

Re: Why Electric Cars Will Be Here Sooner Than You Think

#37

Post by PhantomGremlin »

bitL wrote: post #28

"Sooner" - I thought it would happen in 2012 when in Germany one of their largest energy provider "secretly" built a network of chargers which are more-less unused today. Also, Lithium is a finite element, battery production causes quite a lot of environmental damage during extraction, manufacturing and disposal (of course not amortized to future necessary environmental cleanup, but who cares about a remote place in…

battery production causes quite a lot of environmental damage during extraction

Do you have a link to more info about this? My idealized view is that Lithium is more-or-less there for the taking.[1] E.g. here is what SQM says:

Salar brines are pumped from beneath the saline crust in two different areas of the salar. In one of them, extracted salar brines contain unprecedented concentration levels of potassium and lithium.

salar brines are located in SQM's solar evaporation ponds that cover 1,700 hectares approximately. Atacama Desert is the driest place on earth, with a solar evaporation index of 3,200 millimeters and average precipitations of only 15 millimeters per year. This results in an extremely efficient process of solar energy concentration

Neither "pumping" nor "solar evaporation" seem to be so environmentally damaging. But the devil is in the details, is it not?

Also, lithium will eventually be recycled, much like current lead-acid car batteries are.

[1] http://www.sqm.com/en-us/acercadesqm/recursosnaturales/salmu...

Re: Why Electric Cars Will Be Here Sooner Than You Think

#38

Post by foobarian »

white-flame wrote: post #24
teach wrote: post #2

> By comparison, the average new car in the U.S. today sells for about $33,000. That may be the mean but I'll bet it's nowhere near the median.

I wish I had saved a link to it, but a study on affordability marked an average earning household of about $35k/yr as being able to afford an $8,000 car. In order to be able to afford the "average" $33,000 car took a $90k/yr income.

My household income is way more than that and I still found it painful to buy a $20k car. I find it hard to understand why people buy cars at such high relative prices.

Re: Why Electric Cars Will Be Here Sooner Than You Think

#39

Post by jeffbush »

kylec wrote: post #17

I was talking to my father a few weeks ago about electric cars, and I wanted to quantify how much going electric would save him so I ran some numbers. Where he lives gas is currently somewhere around $2.20/gallon. His car gets around 30mpg combined, so he's paying ~$0.073/mile. Tesla's website contains a "charging estimator" for the Model S, which estimates a cost of $12.04 for a total charge of 300 miles in a 90D. I…

My electric bill went up by about $80 the first month I got my electric car. Computing the cost is a bit tricky because I have tiered billing and I'm hitting the next higher tier since I got the car. My electric company (PG&E) does have an time-of-use billing plan tailored for EV, but, by my computations it didn't help a lot because we use A/C during the day:

https://www.pge.com/en_US/residential/solar-and-vehicles/opt...

If you charge at night and aren't home during the day, and your electric company has an EV plan, this might help.

Re: Why Electric Cars Will Be Here Sooner Than You Think

#40

Post by foobarian »

haddr wrote: post #15
fma wrote: post #10

I was looking at buying a new car recently. I wanted a commuter car while my wife kept the utilitarian Rav 4. I wanted to buy the GM Spark, the electric version. http://www.chevrolet.com/spark-ev-electric-vehicle.html The irony being that a car named Spark originally isn't electric, but only in certain markets.

Spark is somehow crucial in traditional car engines...

...and doesn't exist in electric cars.
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