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A Scenario Where Brexit Does Not Actually Happen

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Re: A Scenario Where Brexit Does Not Actually Happen

#41

Post by bjelkeman-again »

legulere wrote: post #32
GunboatDiplomat wrote: post #7

So... does anyone really think any democratic government would be so crazy as to totally discard the results of a referendum they called?

Sweden ignored a referendum where 83% voted for keeping left-sided traffic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagen_H Often decisions are better left to experts, something that representative democracy usually achieves. I also think that we should explain representative democracy as the population being able to hold the people in power accountable instead of the people deciding things. So democracy might even be a misnom…

Sweden also ignored a referendum and it's own decision to diamantle nuclear power. The government decided that all nuclear power would be dismantled after 2010. (Can be seen in the Swedish article). The majority of those plants are still in operation and can be replaced according to a new decision by a majority of the government. Probably sensible considering the changing understanding about carbon emissions.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_nuclear_power_refere...

Re: A Scenario Where Brexit Does Not Actually Happen

#42

Post by jpfr »

alva wrote: post #37
threeseed wrote: post #2

It really is a poison chalice all right. Of historical proportions. To be in charge when the United Kingdom comes to an end and Britain fades into irrelevance is something nobody could possibly want.

You move towards the picture you create. This sort of crazy hyperbole is why many people are scared. The UK will be fine. We are members of the top international groups, NATO, G7 etc.

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/balance-of-tr...

See the trade-deficit of +3 billion bounds every month? Britain is bleeding dry. And now the money won't "stay in the family".

Re: A Scenario Where Brexit Does Not Actually Happen

#43

Post by have_faith »

danieltillett wrote: post #34
mtgx wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking of which, isn't it about damn time UK got its own Constitution?

The Uk has a constitution, it is just unwritten.

We do have this (I know it's not the same thing exactly): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_Carta

Re: A Scenario Where Brexit Does Not Actually Happen

#44

Post by bjelkeman-again »

danieltillett wrote: post #34
mtgx wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking of which, isn't it about damn time UK got its own Constitution?

The Uk has a constitution, it is just unwritten.

I get the feeling the Brits like to not have too many written rules. Including s constitution. Personally I think it is detrimental to them.

Re: A Scenario Where Brexit Does Not Actually Happen

#45

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

Or maybe Boris looked subdued because he just had the flu.

All those plausible theories are just that: plausible and theories. Who knows what's going through Johnson's head right now? Who knows what will happen in the future? What good is this sort of analysis, that's based on some vague attempt to form a theory of mind of a particular person (rather than a class of person, say) by people who have never even met the person in question in, er, well, person?

In any case BoJo and all the Tories on the side of Leave are typical populists: their tactic is to agitate and profit. They shake the tree until office falls out, then make a grab for it. In chaotic times, the populist leads, so the populist actively tries to create chaos, in exactly the opposite manner than reasonable politicians do (regardless of whether they are also intelligent, capable or not).

This is BoJo's time. It's futile to hope otherwise. The whole country abandoned reason. The prime idiot is not going to back down now. Those people are not in this game to leave a good name for themselves in history: they're in it to do well in the here and now, and damn the rest of the world to hell.

If the reasonable people in the UK wish to retain control, they have to get their noses out of their consolation drinks and squeeze their brains hard to come up with actual ideas, rather than pipe dreams and wishful thinking.

Re: A Scenario Where Brexit Does Not Actually Happen

#46

Post by oblio »

danieltillett wrote: post #34
mtgx wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking of which, isn't it about damn time UK got its own Constitution?

The Uk has a constitution, it is just unwritten.

By that criteria all the countries in the world have had constitutions from the beginning of time :)

Re: A Scenario Where Brexit Does Not Actually Happen

#48

Post by malka »

lifty wrote: post #29
GunboatDiplomat wrote: post #7

So... does anyone really think any democratic government would be so crazy as to totally discard the results of a referendum they called?

Remember what happened to the Greek referendum lead by the Syriza government in 2015? People voted something and the government did the exact opposite. No wonder people are voting more and more with extreme right parties.

Im really afraid that we might have revolutions in western europ during my life.

Re: A Scenario Where Brexit Does Not Actually Happen

#49

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

thomasfoster96 wrote: post #14

Well that pretty much nails it. While on paper it still looks like Boris Johnson is in a great position to the vast majority of the public, the next Prime Minister is going to have to follow through with what they know is a terrible idea, negotiate with the EU with remarkably less leverage than the 'Leave' campaign thought they had, try to deal with Scotland wanting to leave, restless regional pressure groups in Wale…

All this is just old wives politics. "Did you see the look on BoJo's face?" "OMG why is he so subdued now that he won? Quick, reach for an explanation!".

That's all any of these analyses have to go on. A look on BoJo's face. Keep that in mind when you waste your time with all this.

Re: A Scenario Where Brexit Does Not Actually Happen

#50

Post by peteretep »

bodyfour wrote: post #38
thomasfoster96 wrote: post #14

Well that pretty much nails it. While on paper it still looks like Boris Johnson is in a great position to the vast majority of the public, the next Prime Minister is going to have to follow through with what they know is a terrible idea, negotiate with the EU with remarkably less leverage than the 'Leave' campaign thought they had, try to deal with Scotland wanting to leave, restless regional pressure groups in Wale…

Arg.. I just spent a half hour writing a long comment on this article, but then Chrome crashed when I hit "submit". I'll try to briefly retype my thoughts here since you've covered some of them. It's quite clear that Boris did not want the referendum to win. While (like all tories) he would occasionally grumble about Brussels nobody considered him anti-EU during his time as mayor. He was, however, obviously after the…

Corbyn has been spectacularly underwhelming. His getting the boot doesn't feel like self-destruction to me.
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