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Atlas and Cuba

stripe.com

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Re: Atlas and Cuba

#41

Post by zaroth »

The sad thing about Atlas is... why should it be so complicated anyway? If you can prove your identity, and can pay the franchise fees, it should be completely trivial to setup a legal entity and start paying taxes in any country. You just file the paperwork.

Is it the bank account that's the hard thing to get? If you have a Deleware C corp with a statement of good standing and an annual report identifying the corporate officers, and you're the President setting up a bank/merchant account, is this not just a routine affair?

Re: Atlas and Cuba

#42

Post by wildmusings »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #22
13thLetter wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allowing political dissent would be a good start. (Are you really not aware that Cuba is a dictatorship?)

> Are you really not aware that Cuba is a dictatorship? I am, but I live in the US: we have illegal drone strikes against US citizens, NSA wiretapping against US citizens, and so on (the glasses are rose colored for some). Every country has its human rights issues. Cuba may not move towards democracy as much as we'd like, but quality of life can still be improved for its citizens in parallel with political reform.

This is a classic misdirection tactic used by the far left against the West for decades.

To compare drone strikes on jihadist camps in foreign countries, and wiretapping of calls entering and leaving the country, with the total suppression of the human spirit by the Castro regime, is ridiculous and irrelevant.

Unfortunately, people are increasingly buying into this narrative. Moral relativism, moral nihilism I call it, is an unfitting ideology for a nation built on a strong belief in human dignity and freedom.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes

Re: Atlas and Cuba

#43

Post by wildmusings »

the_af wrote: post #38
wildmusings wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Finally, let's not forget Cuba immediately before Communism was an even worse disaster. This is just completely false. Cuba was by no means a democratic or rich country, but there was a growing middle class and plenty of economic success. It was one of the most advanced and successful countries in Latin America. Here's a good article from PBS: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/castro/peopleevents/e_precastro... > Some a…

Um, the PBS link you posted states Cuba had a very troubled history, with a complex history of assassinated leaders, repression, inequality, illiteracy, and widespread corruption. Finally there's Batista, who after an initially progressive government, ended up conducting a coup d'etat which "destroyed the democratic republic he had brought into existence" [sic]. Whether the right next step was Communism or not, the c…

Your first paragraph is totally right, but that doesn't contradict anything I said. Batista was an evil man, and many older Cuban-Americans today will admit that they originally supported the revolution because of that. But you're totally wrong to say that things were worse under Batista than under Castro. There's a great movie, The Lost City, that captures this whole tragedy: the evil of Batista's regime, the competing revolutionary movements, Castro's promises that he wasn't a communist, his victory and ensuing mass executions, lifelong exile in America for some--most of whom left Cuba with nothing but the clothes on their backs--and a life robbed of freedom and opportunity for the rest.

As far as dictatorships go, they're all terrible scourges on mankind. But if I had to choose to live under a dictator like Pinochet or Batista, vs a dictator like Stalin or Castro, I'd choose Pinochet and Batista every time. Communism is uniquely destructive of a nation's culture and productivity. For example, in communist Cuba, you don't choose a job because it pays more. You choose a job based on what opportunities to steal it gives you. Cheating and stealing is the main way to get ahead, or even to meet your needs, in such a society. Few things could be as destructive to a people.

Re: Atlas and Cuba

#44

Post by the_af »

wildmusings wrote: post #43
the_af wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um, the PBS link you posted states Cuba had a very troubled history, with a complex history of assassinated leaders, repression, inequality, illiteracy, and widespread corruption. Finally there's Batista, who after an initially progressive government, ended up conducting a coup d'etat which "destroyed the democratic republic he had brought into existence" [sic]. Whether the right next step was Communism or not, the c…

Your first paragraph is totally right, but that doesn't contradict anything I said. Batista was an evil man, and many older Cuban-Americans today will admit that they originally supported the revolution because of that. But you're totally wrong to say that things were worse under Batista than under Castro. There's a great movie, The Lost City, that captures this whole tragedy: the evil of Batista's regime, the compet…

Well, if you'd prefer Pinochet there's little left to say on my part. Pinochet was a monster, a torturer and a traitor to his country, and along with many murderous dictatorships in South America (like in my country, Argentina) enacted the infamous "Plan Condor" for the assassination of dissenters, as well as the illegal detention and forced disappearance of students and political opponents. It's really hard to come up with a more brutal and despicable dictatorship in South America than his.

We share no common ground on which to continue this discussion.

Re: Atlas and Cuba

#45

Post by reis4g »

kesselvon wrote: post #39
adolfojp wrote: post #8

A few months ago I inquired about using Stripe from Puerto Rico, a US territory for over 100 years, and was told that it wasn't available in the unincorporated territories yet. https://support.stripe.com/questions/can-i-use-stripe-if-my-... And now I see Stripe getting friendly with Cuba. I don't have a clear point to make, as I'm writing this while still upset, but I just felt like I had to get my word out there per…

That's because Cuba is all media hype, very few deals have actually been done and the Cuban government hasn't shown any signs of allowing greater economic freedom. Most Cubans don't even have internet as of now Clever media play by stripe though

(I'm a Cuban entrepreneur) Everything-Cuba has been always media-hype. I believe, in part, due to the poor understanding and information out there about the country. All in all, if you compare, the Cuban government has been actually opening up and allowing much more economic freedom now than it did for many years, and I believe they will continue doing so, as it's in their best interest as well as that of the cuban people. If by "greater" you mean neo-liberalism or alike, I don't think we would do that, but who knows, shit happens.

Stripe's move is clever but not because of the "media play" only ... they are doing the best thing an US business can do regarding an opening Cuba right now, they will see tons of cuban businesses applying right away, and I bet a very high cash-flow, what's not to like?

Also, I can vouch for Merchise Startups (the guys Stripe are partnering with), and they know their ground, that's something you can say about (sadly) too few people in Cuba, regarding business, entrepreneurship and startups anyway. So the move gets clever by the minute...

Re: Atlas and Cuba

#46

Post by wildmusings »

the_af wrote: post #44
wildmusings wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your first paragraph is totally right, but that doesn't contradict anything I said. Batista was an evil man, and many older Cuban-Americans today will admit that they originally supported the revolution because of that. But you're totally wrong to say that things were worse under Batista than under Castro. There's a great movie, The Lost City, that captures this whole tragedy: the evil of Batista's regime, the compet…

Well, if you'd prefer Pinochet there's little left to say on my part. Pinochet was a monster, a torturer and a traitor to his country, and along with many murderous dictatorships in South America (like in my country, Argentina) enacted the infamous "Plan Condor" for the assassination of dissenters, as well as the illegal detention and forced disappearance of students and political opponents. It's really hard to come…

Your response here is intellectually dishonest. Of course Pinochet was bad, and I was very clear about that. My point is that Allende was and would have been worse. Allende was so bad that the Chilean Supreme Court and Congress called for his forcible removal from power by the military. He was ignoring court orders and ruling by diktat. He was turning Chile into Cuba and was close allies with Castro. Today, one country is extremely wealthy and stable, and had a peaceful transition to democracy. The other is still a totalitarian hell hole. You might come to a different conclusion, but moral indignation is unwarranted.

Re: Atlas and Cuba

#47

Post by toomuchtodo »

wildmusings wrote: post #42
toomuchtodo wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you really not aware that Cuba is a dictatorship? I am, but I live in the US: we have illegal drone strikes against US citizens, NSA wiretapping against US citizens, and so on (the glasses are rose colored for some). Every country has its human rights issues. Cuba may not move towards democracy as much as we'd like, but quality of life can still be improved for its citizens in parallel with political reform.

This is a classic misdirection tactic used by the far left against the West for decades. To compare drone strikes on jihadist camps in foreign countries, and wiretapping of calls entering and leaving the country, with the total suppression of the human spirit by the Castro regime, is ridiculous and irrelevant. Unfortunately, people are increasingly buying into this narrative. Moral relativism, moral nihilism I call i…

> Unfortunately, people are increasingly buying into this narrative. Moral relativism, moral nihilism I call it, is an unfitting ideology for a nation built on a strong belief in human dignity and freedom.

As a US citizen, I'm looking forward to the day the US government as a healthy respect for the dignity, privacy, and freedom of its citizens. That day is not today.

Re: Atlas and Cuba

#48

Post by reis4g »

adolfojp wrote: post #8

A few months ago I inquired about using Stripe from Puerto Rico, a US territory for over 100 years, and was told that it wasn't available in the unincorporated territories yet. https://support.stripe.com/questions/can-i-use-stripe-if-my-... And now I see Stripe getting friendly with Cuba. I don't have a clear point to make, as I'm writing this while still upset, but I just felt like I had to get my word out there per…

I'm Cuban and I'm all for your cause! I can be as upset as you are.

It's great to hear Stripe has solved it but remains a mistery WHY Atlas wasn't available for Puerto Rico long time ago? What's the deal? But then again @adolfojp, Puerto Rico, as we all know is US territory for the good of US, no matter Puerto Ricans, right?

Re: Atlas and Cuba

#49

Post by reis4g »

cortesoft wrote: post #3
davidu wrote: post #2

This is really incredible. Many of small actions by a small number of focused people in Washington, in the Whitehouse, and entrepreneurs and bankers, may have a profound impact on millions of Cuban lives in a very short period of time. Another good reminder (to abuse a quote), "chance favors the prepared" -- Stripe had already laid a lot of groundwork before Atlas to handle the systems required for this, and then the…

Yeah, I always thought the embargo was counter productive. I think the best way to influence Cuba was to enable trade with us.

"Influence Cuba" WTF? That's not a healthy/productive way of thinking... What's that you want to "influence" exactly? really? don't you know there are lots of fields where US and most countries in the world would benefit from Cuban influence instead?

And in any case, it shouldn't be about influencing as surely is right now for the powerful Goliat, but about doing the right thing at the very least.

Re: Atlas and Cuba

#50

Post by reis4g »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #4
davidu wrote: post #2

This is really incredible. Many of small actions by a small number of focused people in Washington, in the Whitehouse, and entrepreneurs and bankers, may have a profound impact on millions of Cuban lives in a very short period of time. Another good reminder (to abuse a quote), "chance favors the prepared" -- Stripe had already laid a lot of groundwork before Atlas to handle the systems required for this, and then the…

>> "Many of small actions by a small number of focused people in Washington, in the Whitehouse, and entrepreneurs and bankers, may have a profound impact on millions of Cuban lives in a very short period of time." While this is true don't forget that this also applies to the last several decades in Cuba too. They're fixing something that they created in the first place.

Totally.
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