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Atlas and Cuba

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Re: Atlas and Cuba

#31

Post by toomuchtodo »

13thLetter wrote: post #30
toomuchtodo wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. I'm saying every country has its problems, and that to say one specific problem must be focused on before any of the problems can be solved is disingenuous. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

> No. I'm saying every country has its problems, and that to say one specific problem must be focused on before any of the problems can be solved is disingenuous. Sorry if that wasn't clear. So why is it that we must focus on the problem of NSA wiretapping before we are even allowed to talk about the problem of millions of people being oppressed by a Communist dictatorship?

I'm not saying what you focus on. I'm looking for solutions I can contribute to on the ground. Political revolution is not one of them. I don't have that sort of capital to expend.

Re: Atlas and Cuba

#32

Post by mikeash »

apalmer wrote: post #19
wildmusings wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every other country in the world was free to trade with Cuba. Cuba is a disaster because of Communism, not the US embargo. Communism failed everywhere else, why would Cuba have been any different but for the embargo?

Communism failed everywhere... BUT most of those countries have started down the path to a more market driven economy primarily through external trade... its weird to have trade with USSR and China but not allow trade with Cuba at this time.

The embargo was never about communism itself, it was a response to the seizure of assets owned by Americans without compensation. I think these other countries either didn't do this, or at least didn't do it as much.

Re: Atlas and Cuba

#33

Post by kuschku »

wildmusings wrote: post #13
k-mcgrady wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> "Many of small actions by a small number of focused people in Washington, in the Whitehouse, and entrepreneurs and bankers, may have a profound impact on millions of Cuban lives in a very short period of time." While this is true don't forget that this also applies to the last several decades in Cuba too. They're fixing something that they created in the first place.

Every other country in the world was free to trade with Cuba. Cuba is a disaster because of Communism, not the US embargo. Communism failed everywhere else, why would Cuba have been any different but for the embargo?

Every other country was free to trade with them?

lol?

You do realize the US banned any companies from trading with the US if they had traded with Cuba before?

And used this against Iran, too?

Re: Atlas and Cuba

#35

Post by wildmusings »

the_af wrote: post #26
wildmusings wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every other country in the world was free to trade with Cuba. Cuba is a disaster because of Communism, not the US embargo. Communism failed everywhere else, why would Cuba have been any different but for the embargo?

Cuba is a bit more complex than that. - It's true Cuba is a disaster in some aspects, regardless of the embargo. You have a point there. - On the other hand, it's hard to argue some disasters were made even worse by the embargo. - Some aspects of Cuba are a success, like its approach to universal & free health care and education. Finally, let's not forget Cuba immediately before Communism was an even worse disaster .…

>Finally, let's not forget Cuba immediately before Communism was an even worse disaster.

This is just completely false. Cuba was by no means a democratic or rich country, but there was a growing middle class and plenty of economic success. It was one of the most advanced and successful countries in Latin America. Here's a good article from PBS: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/castro/peopleevents/e_precastro...

>Some aspects of Cuba are a success, like its approach to universal & free health care and education.

This is another myth that's been debunked. http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/cuba/health-myth.htm . It's a National Review article, so they obviously have their own biases, but most of the pro-Cuban pieces rely almost exclusively on Cuba's self-reported WHO statistics, which are obviously unreliable.

Re: Atlas and Cuba

#36

Post by wildmusings »

kuschku wrote: post #33
wildmusings wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every other country in the world was free to trade with Cuba. Cuba is a disaster because of Communism, not the US embargo. Communism failed everywhere else, why would Cuba have been any different but for the embargo?

Every other country was free to trade with them? lol? You do realize the US banned any companies from trading with the US if they had traded with Cuba before? And used this against Iran, too?

That's very deceptive. That restriction was applied to US companies' foreign subsidiaries in 1992, and to all foreign companies in 1995. Castro came to power in 1959. Thirty-three years of economic catastrophe is enough to make my point.

Re: Atlas and Cuba

#37

Post by wildmusings »

apalmer wrote: post #19
wildmusings wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every other country in the world was free to trade with Cuba. Cuba is a disaster because of Communism, not the US embargo. Communism failed everywhere else, why would Cuba have been any different but for the embargo?

Communism failed everywhere... BUT most of those countries have started down the path to a more market driven economy primarily through external trade... its weird to have trade with USSR and China but not allow trade with Cuba at this time.

You're drawing a false dichotomy. Capitalism is good for a country regardless of trade arrangements. It's even better when you have trading partners, but you don't need them to reap massive benefits from a free market system.

Capitalism is really bad if you're trying to hold onto your dictatorship.

Cuba "opened up" economically before, in the 90s. They were under a lot of internal pressure after the collapse of their sponsor, the USSR. As soon as the economy recovered enough to secure the stability of Castro's ruling mafia (party officials, military, etc.), he reversed the market reforms and ratcheted up repression.

Re: Atlas and Cuba

#38

Post by the_af »

wildmusings wrote: post #35
the_af wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cuba is a bit more complex than that. - It's true Cuba is a disaster in some aspects, regardless of the embargo. You have a point there. - On the other hand, it's hard to argue some disasters were made even worse by the embargo. - Some aspects of Cuba are a success, like its approach to universal & free health care and education. Finally, let's not forget Cuba immediately before Communism was an even worse disaster .…

> Finally, let's not forget Cuba immediately before Communism was an even worse disaster. This is just completely false. Cuba was by no means a democratic or rich country, but there was a growing middle class and plenty of economic success. It was one of the most advanced and successful countries in Latin America. Here's a good article from PBS: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/castro/peopleevents/e_precastro... > Some a…

Um, the PBS link you posted states Cuba had a very troubled history, with a complex history of assassinated leaders, repression, inequality, illiteracy, and widespread corruption. Finally there's Batista, who after an initially progressive government, ended up conducting a coup d'etat which "destroyed the democratic republic he had brought into existence" [sic].

Whether the right next step was Communism or not, the country at that point was an unmitigated disaster.

The article from the conservative National Review is, like you say, biased. There is truth to it and there is opinion.

Re: Atlas and Cuba

#39

Post by kesselvon »

adolfojp wrote: post #8

A few months ago I inquired about using Stripe from Puerto Rico, a US territory for over 100 years, and was told that it wasn't available in the unincorporated territories yet. https://support.stripe.com/questions/can-i-use-stripe-if-my-... And now I see Stripe getting friendly with Cuba. I don't have a clear point to make, as I'm writing this while still upset, but I just felt like I had to get my word out there per…

That's because Cuba is all media hype, very few deals have actually been done and the Cuban government hasn't shown any signs of allowing greater economic freedom. Most Cubans don't even have internet as of now

Clever media play by stripe though

Re: Atlas and Cuba

#40

Post by hiphipjorge »

edwinwee wrote: post #10
adolfojp wrote: post #8

A few months ago I inquired about using Stripe from Puerto Rico, a US territory for over 100 years, and was told that it wasn't available in the unincorporated territories yet. https://support.stripe.com/questions/can-i-use-stripe-if-my-... And now I see Stripe getting friendly with Cuba. I don't have a clear point to make, as I'm writing this while still upset, but I just felt like I had to get my word out there per…

Hi, I work at Stripe. We are actually now able to support Puerto Rican businesses. (We need to update that support page!) Shoot me an email at edwin.wee@stripe.com and we can get you set up.

Was there actually a good reason for this?

The limitation seems completely arbitrary or stems for a misunderstanding about the difference between a state and a territory. For better or for worse, Puerto Rico is virtually a state (with residents who can't vote for the president with some minor other caveats), but legally there shouldn't be any difference.

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