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L.A. to declare 'state of emergency' on homelessness

latimes.com

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Re: L.A. to declare 'state of emergency' on homelessness

#41

Post by tdylan »

[deleted] wrote: post #35
winter_blue wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This libertarian idea that people would give more if they weren't taxed is utter bullshit. This. Libertarians live in some sort of idealistic fantasy, where most humans are intrinsically good , and inclined to do good, like help the poor and needy around them. That is emphatically not the nature of the average human. We absolutely need to force and coerce people to do good, under the threat of violence (for non-pay…

[deleted]

There's no such thing as 'trickle down'. Cite me one serious economic paper which has referenced it. It's one of those things that through shear force of repetition people believe that it is a real theorem.

Re: L.A. to declare 'state of emergency' on homelessness

#42

Post by elcct »

onion2k wrote: post #15
elcct wrote: post #7

Why exactly homelessness is a problem?

There are two sorts of wealth - private wealth and public wealth. Private wealth is your nice house, your fancy car, your money in the bank. Having lots of private wealth is great and it means you lead a comfortable life. Public wealth is the society you live in. It's the quality of the roads you drive on, the cleanliness of the streets, the safety you feel walking around a city. To be happy you need both kinds of we…

You still have not explained why homelessness is a problem.

There is plenty of places on earth I wouldn't go to, for example Northern Canada it doesn't mean I am not living a full life. Should I be on the quest of speeding up global warming to be able to see palm trees growing there and finally make it suitable for me to go? Nonsense.

Re: L.A. to declare 'state of emergency' on homelessness

#43

Post by tdylan »

winter_blue wrote: post #34
vacri wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. This libertarian idea that people would give more if they weren't taxed is utter bullshit. As is the idea that every human is an island. We're all in this together. The charities people give to? For the most part, it's acute and visible charities. Very few people give to the same charity again and again, over the course of decades. People also give to attractive charities - kids with terminal diseases is a much e…

> This libertarian idea that people would give more if they weren't taxed is utter bullshit. This. Libertarians live in some sort of idealistic fantasy, where most humans are intrinsically good , and inclined to do good, like help the poor and needy around them. That is emphatically not the nature of the average human. We absolutely need to force and coerce people to do good, under the threat of violence (for non-pay…

If most humans are _not_ intrinsically good, why do we have leaders who have vast amounts of power? Unless you're suggesting that all the leaders are the 'good' people?

Re: L.A. to declare 'state of emergency' on homelessness

#44

Post by vjoshi »

icebraining wrote: post #19
Axsuul wrote: post #2

I'm really glad to see this issue on the front page. I live in downtown LA and I'm on the front lines of this epidemic. It does seem like the situation is getting worse. I wonder if technology can somehow play a role here. I would gladly fund some of the "regulars" around here via some type of Watsi-esque solution.

I wonder if technology can somehow play a role here. I would gladly fund some of the "regulars" around here via some type of Watsi-esque solution. That's what HandUp ( https://handup.org/ ) is doing.

I think it can. I think if we are absolutely fine with sponsoring animals and finding them new homes etc .. why not apply a similar model for homeless people? An organisation can tailor a plan best fit to each individual and crowd funding can help get them on their feet .. states sponsorships/grants etc can surely be utilised here also for training schemes etc. So now it's not just about giving someone a roof over their head but a life back. Well, this is off the top of my head, could use some input obvs but allow the talking. Let's get started :)

Re: L.A. to declare 'state of emergency' on homelessness

#45

Post by elcct »

DanBC wrote: post #14
elcct wrote: post #7

Why exactly homelessness is a problem?

Homelessness and people being vulnerably housed are useful indicators of poor availability of mental health treatment; of poor availability of drug and alcohol treatment; of a lack of rehabilitation in criminal justice; of predatory and aggressive debt chasing; etc. There's a lot of misinformation and stigma around people who are vulnerably housed (often along the lines of "they did it themselves") so by by creating…

Of course they are indicators, but why exactly this is a problem?

What homeless people actually do so that you don't want them to be what they are?

Re: L.A. to declare 'state of emergency' on homelessness

#46

Post by tdylan »

winter_blue wrote: post #22
jakeogh wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I donate to people, but is forcing (violently if necessary) other people to do the same ethical? Aren't there better ways?

I don't mind paying higher taxes to support the poor. Only a minority of the population will voluntarily support the poor, and even if they do, only a tiny fraction of their income would go toward it. Forcing everyone to "donate" a more-than-tiny chunk of their income to help those less fortunate than them, is the ethical thing to do.

Do you have any evidence to support that?

Re: L.A. to declare 'state of emergency' on homelessness

#47

Post by DanBC »

tdylan wrote: post #41
[deleted] wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

There's no such thing as 'trickle down'. Cite me one serious economic paper which has referenced it. It's one of those things that through shear force of repetition people believe that it is a real theorem.

Plenty of politicians pushed trickle down.

http://www.psmag.com/business-economics/trickle-down-economi...

Re: L.A. to declare 'state of emergency' on homelessness

#48

Post by anon4 »

sandworm101 wrote: post #38
6t6t6 wrote: post #30

Is there any way a person with a mental illness get a proper treatment in US? I mean, for some one who is unable to work because he has, for instance, schizophrenia, clinical depression or alcoholism, is there any option apart from indigence?

Jail and/or prison. That is where many of them end up. Some judges would rather see someone get "treatment" in custody than get nothing on the street.

Jail is different from prison how?

Re: L.A. to declare 'state of emergency' on homelessness

#49

Post by icebraining »

winter_blue wrote: post #34
vacri wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. This libertarian idea that people would give more if they weren't taxed is utter bullshit. As is the idea that every human is an island. We're all in this together. The charities people give to? For the most part, it's acute and visible charities. Very few people give to the same charity again and again, over the course of decades. People also give to attractive charities - kids with terminal diseases is a much e…

> This libertarian idea that people would give more if they weren't taxed is utter bullshit. This. Libertarians live in some sort of idealistic fantasy, where most humans are intrinsically good , and inclined to do good, like help the poor and needy around them. That is emphatically not the nature of the average human. We absolutely need to force and coerce people to do good, under the threat of violence (for non-pay…

If most people aren't good, why do they vote for governments that take away part of their money to give to the poor?

(By the way, I don't think most people would give more if not taxed, at least all else being equal, but not because they're "not good". There are many incentives at play.)

Re: L.A. to declare 'state of emergency' on homelessness

#50

Post by neverminder »

anon4 wrote: post #48
sandworm101 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jail and/or prison. That is where many of them end up. Some judges would rather see someone get "treatment" in custody than get nothing on the street.

Jail is different from prison how?

In context of US: http://sheriff.org/faqs/displayfaq.cfm?id=4f892698-5c5d-40f8...
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