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France bids to reverse tech brain drain

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Re: France bids to reverse tech brain drain

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My German bank doesn't even offer cheque books anymore.

Cash is King is Germany. It's rather awkward if you come from a country with heavy card use. It's just weird to carry a few hundred euros in cash in your pocket these days.

You need cash in Germany, but not a lot of it – everything big takes a debit card. That does not help strangers with their credit cards though, so they get the wrong impression.

Re: France bids to reverse tech brain drain

#42
post #26
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My impression living in France for the last year is very similar to yours. It's the mecca of paperwork (but doing taxes was relatively easy). And if you're required to supply some documentation from another country, you're likely to be required to get it translated to French by an official translator (which not only takes time but can be quite expensive). In contrast, I've never had a problem handing in German docume…

> The catch-22s are the best. Renting an apartment requires that you have a French bank account, and getting a French bank account requires that you already have somewhere to live in France... Not specific to France - I had the same experience as a French in Berlin (though it was twenty years ago - it might have changed).

Same in UK as well, took one month for me to open a bank account after I moved to London. Had to do a driving license + insurance number, nightmare.

Re: France bids to reverse tech brain drain

#43
Interesting

So yesterday I posted this one https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10220487

which spawned more than 300 comments and apparently seems to be something people care about.

My primary claim was that it wasn't as such the typical things like culture, language etc that created the issues but also the way the EU is harmonizing the markets and forcing change through the political system rather than the civil society which is unfriendly to entrepreneurs unless they do very predictable businesses.

But today i have seen several posts all related to Europes issues with startups that is talking about things in this vein.

Re: France bids to reverse tech brain drain

#44
post #16
post #6

Maybe France really changed a lot. But be not mistaken: It is still the most bureaucratic country on earth. Anecdote: I'm doing a PhD in France. Each year, one has to do a re-inscription. In Germany, that means sending money to the university. In France, that means sending in – let me count, I have them on my desk – 17 documents, and to pay as well of course (preferred way: with a check. Like it is 50 years ago). The…

My impression living in France for the last year is very similar to yours. It's the mecca of paperwork (but doing taxes was relatively easy). And if you're required to supply some documentation from another country, you're likely to be required to get it translated to French by an official translator (which not only takes time but can be quite expensive). In contrast, I've never had a problem handing in German docume…

The catch-22 applies to U.S. as well. Renting an apartment requires a credit score, which you get from having a credit card, which you can only get by having a credit score.

Re: France bids to reverse tech brain drain

#45

The problem is work ethic. I've been to France on business on 2-week stints about a dozen times, and I can tell you from my experience they do not want to work hard -- at anything. 6hr workdays, and at LEAST 1hr for lunch and worst of all they look at you like you are the crazy one for wanting to get more done each day.

I worked for 3 years in France (Paris and province), and 3 years in the US (NJ and NYC). Things are the same. Humans are the same. It all depends on the company culture.

Re: France bids to reverse tech brain drain

#46
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it depends on where you work, like all countries. I have the exacts same experience as you working at a NYC insurance company (9 to 5 then go home). I also know at lot of companies here (in France) where people work their asses off everyday.

My current startup has a 9-5 culture, and we get a lot more done than any other startup I've worked for. No ping-pong, no long lunch breaks, no watercooler discussions, much less surfing on company time. I get more done in 8 hours than I used to get done in 12, and I get an extra 4 hours with my family.

I find that ping-pong and watercooler discussions are necessary as breaks. Otherwise you burn out and you only get, say, 4 hours of real work done in an 8-hour day.

Re: France bids to reverse tech brain drain

#47
post #11
post #2

I don't have hard data, but only a feeling that it should be easier to bootstrap in France than in US. Assuming you have worked previously, you can get unemployment benefits, around 60% of your previous salary for a year, and are covered by universal healthcare. So even if you need to have open heart surgery, you won't bankrupt your family for the next 7 generations. Actually someone (very brilliant) in my team is le…

Our startup was created in France 2,5 years ago. Here is our experience: Some of us started working on the project while getting unemployment benefits (huge boost). We get (very) affordable office spaces from the city and various incubators (we are located in Paris). We are able to live on first customers + 0% loans from the state + hundreds of thousands of euros in various grants for innovation ( http://www.bpifranc…

"Why would we want to start run company anywhere else?"

Rent? And living expenses in general. It's going to be you largest expense bootstrapping, especially since it's post tax. It also gets harder to invite people you know to come work with you and getting a larger/better suited apartment in general (location, contract terns, layout, furnished etc).

Not that this is that different from other big cities and I personally think Paris is one of the few that lives up to the hype. Still not preferred for early startups.

Re: France bids to reverse tech brain drain

#48
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. And virements (bank transfer) are really strange, at least with my bank (wait 24 hours to send money, I never saw that before). For me, that fits well into the image of a country that is not at all modern. But: That at least changed. They are still popular like you said, but by now you can get by without them (I for example have none), many stores do not accept them anymore. That is new.

What to say about the US (and Canada) where cheap transfers between bank accounts don't exist (at least from individual to individual) Yes, where it exists it's rarely instantaneous across banks

Well, it sounds really impolite saying that. But you can probably guess what I think of it: I think it is really strange that a nation as modern as the USA is in that regard 100 years behind basically all other industrial nations.

Though instantaneous they are also not in Germany, can take some time to arrive.

Re: France bids to reverse tech brain drain

#49
post #44
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My impression living in France for the last year is very similar to yours. It's the mecca of paperwork (but doing taxes was relatively easy). And if you're required to supply some documentation from another country, you're likely to be required to get it translated to French by an official translator (which not only takes time but can be quite expensive). In contrast, I've never had a problem handing in German docume…

The catch-22 applies to U.S. as well. Renting an apartment requires a credit score, which you get from having a credit card, which you can only get by having a credit score.

Well, that's not entirely true. I went through the process somewhat recently, and you can get a credit card by depositing some money first and using that as your max credit. That way the bank doesn't take any risk but you can build up your credit.

Re: France bids to reverse tech brain drain

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My German bank doesn't even offer cheque books anymore.

Cash is King is Germany. It's rather awkward if you come from a country with heavy card use. It's just weird to carry a few hundred euros in cash in your pocket these days.

Yes it is quite strange (and annoying) but you get used to it.
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