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Dinner and Deception – Serving meals to the super-rich left me feeling empty

nytimes.com

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Re: Dinner and Deception – Serving meals to the super-rich left me feeling empty

#41

Post by hueving »

msie wrote: post #26
wpietri wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have often imagined a dashcam that does license plate recognition and lets you know when shitty drivers are nearby. And of course, it would have voice response so you could give nearby cars compliments and public grumbles. Presumably you'd also want it to be geosensitive and real time, so that it could say, "Hey, there's a lunatic coming up behind you." Seems like it would be easy to put together a dash stand, some…

No no no! Hopefully you guys are joking. This is another case of geeks thinking technology and public shaming will cure us all of bad human behaviour. Cynically I think you'll get funding.

It worked with Uber rating drivers and riders. Care to elaborate on why this wouldn't work?

Re: Dinner and Deception – Serving meals to the super-rich left me feeling empty

#42

Post by gyardley »

freshhawk wrote: post #13
A_COMPUTER wrote: post #5

I love the commenters describing it as being like a scene from Bonfire of the Vanities or serving Egyptian pharaohs. Speaking from experience, there are plenty of poor people that are at least as aloof, entitled and rude to service staff as rich people, often times even worse. And corporate restaurants/stores mimic the same patterns as shown here, you just get paid less and treated worse.

I assumed the difference they are picking up on and the one that prompted the comparison is the culture of pretending that excellence at this job is meaningful. The large teams of people and the rules of the dance also make it very clear that you are not there to ensure a pleasant and efficient "dining experience". You are very much also there to act subservient and to be used as the object of a status display. The f…

This comment doesn't mesh at all with my experience at any high-end NYC restaurant, including the place where this guy worked.

The staff isn't subservient; they've got some expertise, so they steer and make recommendations so you'd have a better experience than you'd have deciding independently.

The patrons quite evidently aren't just 'the people who your entire society has decided are worth listening to', since they also include people who sit around reading Hacker News (as well as a good smattering of tourists and couples celebrating their anniversary.)

And finally, if you're an ass to the staff, everyone around you still unambiguously knows and thinks you're an ass.

Re: Dinner and Deception – Serving meals to the super-rich left me feeling empty

#43

Post by otoburb »

icanhackit wrote: post #11
A_COMPUTER wrote: post #5

I love the commenters describing it as being like a scene from Bonfire of the Vanities or serving Egyptian pharaohs. Speaking from experience, there are plenty of poor people that are at least as aloof, entitled and rude to service staff as rich people, often times even worse. And corporate restaurants/stores mimic the same patterns as shown here, you just get paid less and treated worse.

there are plenty of poor people that are at least as aloof, entitled and rude to service staff as rich people We need a reverse Yelp that reviews humans rather than businesses. So many people fail to follow the Golden Rule in simple, everyday interactions for no discernible advantage to themselves at the cost of dignity, respect and efficiency. Some customers you don't want. And the customer is not always right. A so…

>Some customers you don't want.

An Uber driver told me that customers are rated for exactly this reason. If a customer score is deemed too low when requesting a ride, then Uber drivers will tend to be a tad slower to accept the ride in the hopes another driver will pick it up instead.

Re: Dinner and Deception – Serving meals to the super-rich left me feeling empty

#44

Post by meestaahjoshee »

jnbiche wrote: post #30
milspec wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan does this right: nobody tips. Customers pay the restaurant, and the restaurant pays the waiters. Tipping is one small step away from paying bribes. Don't do it. Don't encourage it. Don't accept it.

OK, but this is not Japan, and if you are skipping or skimping on tips here in the US, chances are you're screwing over a relatively poor person. US law allows restaurants to pay waiters and waitresses well below minimum wage, under the assumption that their tips will make up the difference. But I suspect I'll not convince you.

If you make less than minimum wage because you're not getting enough tips, your employer is legally supposed to pay you the difference so that you would still make the minimum. Whether places actually abide by those laws is a different story I imagine.

Re: Dinner and Deception – Serving meals to the super-rich left me feeling empty

#45

Post by everyone »

milspec wrote: post #27
wtbob wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Speaking from experience, there are plenty of poor people that are at least as aloof, entitled and rude to service staff as rich people, often times even worse. Yup. One of my brothers was a waiter for many years in a town where it was easy to tell the lower classes from the upper; it wasn't just common for him to receive no or little tip when he waited on members of the lower classes, it was the rule . In years, I…

Japan does this right: nobody tips. Customers pay the restaurant, and the restaurant pays the waiters. Tipping is one small step away from paying bribes. Don't do it. Don't encourage it. Don't accept it.

Most developed countries have a minimum hourly wage. Here in Ireland for example it would be illegal to pay someone less. I still tip the pizza delivery guy though. I guess cus they are providing a service directly to me. I suppose pizaa delivery is a pretty low paying job and I have a pretty cool decently paying job so I'm just being nice.

Re: Dinner and Deception – Serving meals to the super-rich left me feeling empty

#46

Post by jnbiche »

lazaroclapp wrote: post #40
jnbiche wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, but this is not Japan, and if you are skipping or skimping on tips here in the US, chances are you're screwing over a relatively poor person. US law allows restaurants to pay waiters and waitresses well below minimum wage, under the assumption that their tips will make up the difference. But I suspect I'll not convince you.

How about doing it the other way around? The restaurant includes a fixed percentage charge for the service on all items, announces it prominently, requites waiters to refuse any additional tips. One can argue that, because the advertised prices would be, say, 18% higher, the restaurant would fail due to customers preferring restaurants with lower advertised prices. But at least the experiment could be run in this cas…

Yes, that would be ethical, I believe. In fact, in many restaurants, this is how things are now for tables of 6 or more.

Re: Dinner and Deception – Serving meals to the super-rich left me feeling empty

#47

Post by roymurdock »

brookside wrote: post #33
wpietri wrote: post #20

For those who love the stories of people behind the scenes, it's worth digging around in the Wayback Machine for Bitter Waitress's archives. E.g.: http://web.archive.org/web/20080917050640/http://www.bitterw... And my favorite San Francisco story in this vein is "Ice Balls": http://the-tusk.com/2015/01/09/ice-balls/

I enjoyed "Ice Balls". Thank you.

Same, "Ice Balls" was a fantastic piece of writing. Thanks for sharing.

Re: Dinner and Deception – Serving meals to the super-rich left me feeling empty

#49

Post by gyardley »

everyone wrote: post #36

My main feeling reading about this is that in a well designed society there is no logical reason that such opulence should exist.

In a well-designed society my wife and I can't voluntarily decide to save up and have a really nice dinner for our anniversary? What kind of person is this designer?

Re: Dinner and Deception – Serving meals to the super-rich left me feeling empty

#50

Post by infiniteseeker »

wpietri wrote: post #20

For those who love the stories of people behind the scenes, it's worth digging around in the Wayback Machine for Bitter Waitress's archives. E.g.: http://web.archive.org/web/20080917050640/http://www.bitterw... And my favorite San Francisco story in this vein is "Ice Balls": http://the-tusk.com/2015/01/09/ice-balls/

Some solid misandry here...From the article, last 2 paragraphs:

>"It turns out there are a lot of upsides to being a woman. You get to hang out with women. You >don’t have to hang out with men. You don’t have to condescend to people about things like ice. >You notice other people’s reactions to you. People consider you safe enough to tell you their >problems. You get to smile at kids you don’t know. You get to hang out with women. You get to >hang out with women. Your whole life. Between the old guys congratulating themselves for being >able to drop 700 dollars on an ounce of 40 year old scotch, or my mom getting goofy on ice wine >with her retired nurse friends, I know who’s throwing the better party. > > >The well-meaning among you might be tempted to explain to me, hey you could hang out with women >who went to women’s colleges and still get called he or they or ze or hir or you might want to >explain to me that there are so many good dudes who are transforming what it means to be a dude, >and I could join in and transform it with them. Nope. No thanks. I think estrogen is good deal. I >think this female thing is a good deal. Even with the rape and the gas-lighting and the poverty >and the shitty jobs and the sexual harassment and the doing all the housework and the watching >jokers kill the planet and the regular ice, this womanhood thing is where it’s at. Those ice >balls have melted. I’m good."

What some people do not realise is that men wouldn't do what they do with accumulating status and wealth, if women didn't reward them with sex for it.

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