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Google: 90% of our engineers use the software you wrote (Homebrew), but...

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Re: Google: 90% of our engineers use the software you wrote (Homebrew), but...

#391
post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coding Interviews Exposed covers most questions you'll be answered. It all depends on the team though, the interviewing process is completely non-regulated here. We get training telling us what to legally not say, but other than that is a free for all. Teams ask white boarding questions because they heard other teams ask white boarding questions.

What are you not allowed to ask?

Standard legal stuff.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/11-common-interview-questions-...

Re: Google: 90% of our engineers use the software you wrote (Homebrew), but...

#392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well how do you define "better"? Esteemed schools of music probably produce dozens of guitarists "better" (in any way you would measure it academically) than Jimmy Page or Jimi Hendrix per year who go on to a life of producing nothing of lasting worth. I'll take the guy/girl who has actually proved they can produce something useful every time over someone who is "better" but hasn't.

Well then I guess it's because Page/Hendrix were much more than expert guitarists. They were also good at composition, lyrics, showmanship, marketing, business. Those academic guitarists will make contributions to the guitar field but seems that you wouldn't value that alone and it's OK. You are free to have your opinion about whom to hire just as Google is. For the sake of the argument, you could imagine 100 reasons…

If Google keeps telling itself it only hires the very best guitarists, and it turns down someone like Hendrix - because he's "not a team player", or he doesn't know how to tap out 13/18 while improvising an Indian Harikhamboji raga, or for some other inane reason - then it isn't really interested in the best guitarists at all.

It's the difference between an holistic view of talent, and an academic and rather narcissistic insistence on specific limited social signals that are believed to correlate with intelligence.

And this really matters in practical ways. A lot of talented devs will be reading this story and wondering if they really want to work for Google. Negative PR like this is incredibly damaging. Consider the opposite - if Google could say "Yes, the Homebrew guy works for us." How much value do you think that would have had?

Long term, the really smart and inventive people start to stay away. And then you get something that seems to be happening to Google already - declining product quality, a poorer user experience, and diminished reputation. You know - Google's record of hits recently hasn't been that great?

So anyone who thinks Google is fine because it still has thousands of applicants is missing the point. Instead of being the kind of place where Hendrix plays, it's in danger of becoming the kind of place where there are a lot of people with a lot of solid but uncreative technical chops, and no one is making cool and interesting music any more.

Re: Google: 90% of our engineers use the software you wrote (Homebrew), but...

#393
post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you may have left with the wrong impression. If you ask Googlers or Xooglers alike, most agree that the people here are actually the best thing about Google. Like anywhere else, there are some bad apples, but compared to most other places the people here are on average more talented, nicer human beings and more helpful. Certainly compared to your typical startup or other BigCo. In my nearly 3 years here, that…

As far as my specific interviewers are concerned, I liked 7 of the 8 as individuals, which is great. What I didn't like was the company felt like a monoculture. Same schools, same majors, same pre-education background. Everybody looks the same, dresses the same, etc. The process, on the other hand. Ugh. I have zero respect for Google as a company after that. It starts with the standard phone screen/day-long onsite/ha…

In my experience, this is standard HR pressure. Not saying every company is like this, but once I'm given an offer I expect HR to use any carrot or stick to get me to accept.

Re: Google: 90% of our engineers use the software you wrote (Homebrew), but...

#395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, exactly, since it's Google, they can afford to have strong filters which will definitely filter out a bad hire, may be at the expense of rejecting a good candidate. Their policy might expect good candidate to get absorbed in Google one way or other, but they definitely want to filter a bad hire. However, in the recent years, I have seen this to be not working as expected. Still, I don't think it matters to Googl…

"filter out a bad hire" Good teams have a balanced skill sets I've found. You need some uber-algorithm guys who can pass questions like this, but you also need engineers who can fill in all the rest of the tasks that make up a production worthy system. I have not found that the uber-algorithm guys always pay attention to detail, put in good comments, think of all the edge cases, communicate well with outside teams, e…

> you also need engineers who can fill in all the rest of the tasks that make up a production worthy system. I have not found that the uber-algorithm guys always pay attention to detail, put in good comments, think of all the edge cases, communicate well with outside teams, etc.

What's to keep a good engineer like you describe from buying a couple of books and spending a couple of months working on becoming the type of person that can do well on these questions?

Re: Google: 90% of our engineers use the software you wrote (Homebrew), but...

#396
post #15

At a certain point, your resume should speak for itself. The fact that experienced engineers with impressive resumes are put through these types of interviews is insulting and frustrating to the interviewees. Succeeding at these whiteboard questions requires weeks of preparation. You need to practice, practice, practice. After enough practice, you are pretty likely to pass. So ultimately, it is more of a test of "how…

> At a certain point, your resume should speak for itself.

IIRC, a Portuguese proverb states that paper accepts whatever is written on it. One should always take a self-assessment with a grain of salt.

Re: Google: 90% of our engineers use the software you wrote (Homebrew), but...

#397
post #15

At a certain point, your resume should speak for itself. The fact that experienced engineers with impressive resumes are put through these types of interviews is insulting and frustrating to the interviewees. Succeeding at these whiteboard questions requires weeks of preparation. You need to practice, practice, practice. After enough practice, you are pretty likely to pass. So ultimately, it is more of a test of "how…

> At a certain point, your resume should speak for itself. IIRC, a Portuguese proverb states that paper accepts whatever is written on it. One should always take a self-assessment with a grain of salt.

He self-assessed writing Homebrew?

Re: Google: 90% of our engineers use the software you wrote (Homebrew), but...

#398
post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has got to be the biggest hiring fallacy I've ever heard. "It's better to reject a good candidate than hire a bad candidate." That's completely false, and anyone who says that is completely ignorant of Bayesian logic. Here are some simple numbers. Suppose that a "good" candidate is a 1-in-100 find. Suppose that a "bad" candidate has a 1% chance of tricking you into hiring them anyway. Every time you pass on a "g…

This is not about numbers. A bad hire can easily cause more friction than if nobody was hired at all. Net effect for the business is negative. You're also probably severely overestimating the likelihood of a bad hire going through.

You can fire a bad hire. You can't hire someone you already rejected because a few weeks later they already have a job.

Re: Google: 90% of our engineers use the software you wrote (Homebrew), but...

#399
post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think of the problem from Google's perspective though. At some point, you have tens of thousands of candidates and you need a system to quantify how good they are. Further, it's reasonable to have false negatives (people you don't hire that should have been hired) but really bad to have false positives (people that you hire that you should not have). Together, these boil down into the de facto whiteboarding interview…

No, it doesn't. Say I pass the invert a tree question. Does that prove I am good? That I can design a product, listen to customer requirements, come up with ideas that elude others, read a research paper and turn it into something commercial, solder a circuit board, make a schedule, mentor junior engineers, write documentation? No. All inverting a tree tells them is I studied trees recently, and/or I'm at least super…

They have publicly admitted there's no correlation between their hiring process and outcomes. I'm not even clear [why] we're still debating this.

Other than to wonder why they still haven't done anything about it. (I interviewed there ~8 years ago, pre Android when they were looking for deep mobile expertise and got flunked out on a similar problem. I am not at all interested in working for them now)

Re: Google: 90% of our engineers use the software you wrote (Homebrew), but...

#400
post #15

At a certain point, your resume should speak for itself. The fact that experienced engineers with impressive resumes are put through these types of interviews is insulting and frustrating to the interviewees. Succeeding at these whiteboard questions requires weeks of preparation. You need to practice, practice, practice. After enough practice, you are pretty likely to pass. So ultimately, it is more of a test of "how…

I interviewed @ google several years ago as part of some due-diligence they were doing to decide if they wanted to acquire the startup I was working at, [redacted]. It was several hours, with many interviewers one at a time, of academic exercises. Some I could see were relevant to some of Google's projects, but that wasn't the emphasis- it was very much a "how much do you remember from CS courses?" (with a few except…

Your previous work is what gets you in the door, but interviews at Google are explicitly structured so that you need to demonstrate competence right then and there.

And ye olde "what's your greatest strength/weakness" question sounds like a terrible way to judge an engineer.

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