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Google: 90% of our engineers use the software you wrote (Homebrew), but...

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Re: Google: 90% of our engineers use the software you wrote (Homebrew), but...

#361
post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has got to be the biggest hiring fallacy I've ever heard. "It's better to reject a good candidate than hire a bad candidate." That's completely false, and anyone who says that is completely ignorant of Bayesian logic. Here are some simple numbers. Suppose that a "good" candidate is a 1-in-100 find. Suppose that a "bad" candidate has a 1% chance of tricking you into hiring them anyway. Every time you pass on a "g…

This is not about numbers. A bad hire can easily cause more friction than if nobody was hired at all. Net effect for the business is negative. You're also probably severely overestimating the likelihood of a bad hire going through.

Doesn't understand bayesian logic! Doesn't understand risk management!

Re: Google: 90% of our engineers use the software you wrote (Homebrew), but...

#362
post #43
post #15

At a certain point, your resume should speak for itself. The fact that experienced engineers with impressive resumes are put through these types of interviews is insulting and frustrating to the interviewees. Succeeding at these whiteboard questions requires weeks of preparation. You need to practice, practice, practice. After enough practice, you are pretty likely to pass. So ultimately, it is more of a test of "how…

These types of interviews work really well for the "I got 1600 on my SATs and went to {insert high profile school here} crowd" There are books out there just to prep you for Google interviews I see these as very similar to SAT test prep books. I'm not so sure Google is really interested in hiring the best engineers but rather a specific type of engineer.

Not just books. There are even courses: http://Interviewkickstart.com.

Re: Google: 90% of our engineers use the software you wrote (Homebrew), but...

#363
post #15

At a certain point, your resume should speak for itself. The fact that experienced engineers with impressive resumes are put through these types of interviews is insulting and frustrating to the interviewees. Succeeding at these whiteboard questions requires weeks of preparation. You need to practice, practice, practice. After enough practice, you are pretty likely to pass. So ultimately, it is more of a test of "how…

> At a certain point, your resume should speak for itself. The fact that experienced engineers with impressive resumes are put through these types of interviews is insulting and frustrating to the interviewees. Only to bad interviewees. You'd be shocked to hear the number of impressive résumés I have seen who turned out to be absolute no-hires after 20mn on a white board. By "absolute no hire", I mean the kind where…

> You'd be shocked to hear the number of impressive résumés I have seen who turned out to be absolute no-hires after 20mn on a white board.

Hmm, at least in my experience it's really quick and easy to tell if someone is bullshitting about their resume or not by simply talking about the different projects they worked on. I know a few developers who didn't go to a 4 year school so they don't know all of the correct terms or algorithms (one even interviewed for Google and failed) but I would hire them in a heart beat because they are really awesome.

I still feel some sort of pair-programming exercise or something similar is better than simply trying to solve problems on a white board. Unless you're in a SCIF you're going to have access to the internet to refresh your memory, etc so I've never found utility in asking academic questions. In fact I've had a few people who could pass the academic questions but couldn't build an application to save their life so I don't even bother anymore.

Re: Google: 90% of our engineers use the software you wrote (Homebrew), but...

#364
post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People have previously mentioned hallway discussions at Google routinely devolve into bragging about SAT scores and GPAs. I've been at Google for 3.5 years (in the NY office) and have never heard this. I don't think I've ever even seen anyone wear a college t-shirt/sweater.

It's probably a pathological case centered around the mountain view office: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5534904 / https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3473308

From that second link:

> These aren't Googlers I'm talking about, except the boyfriend.... remember that most of these conversations happened when I was actually in college (a few even before then, while applying to schools), and I just have a really long memory

Sounds like someone who's just into remembering people's SAT scores?

Re: Google: 90% of our engineers use the software you wrote (Homebrew), but...

#366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to interview at MS next year, I have no formal CS training. Can you give me any hints?

Coding Interviews Exposed covers most questions you'll be answered. It all depends on the team though, the interviewing process is completely non-regulated here. We get training telling us what to legally not say, but other than that is a free for all. Teams ask white boarding questions because they heard other teams ask white boarding questions.

What are you not allowed to ask?

Re: Google: 90% of our engineers use the software you wrote (Homebrew), but...

#367
post #75
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These types of interviews work really well for the "I got 1600 on my SATs and went to {insert high profile school here} crowd" There are books out there just to prep you for Google interviews I see these as very similar to SAT test prep books. I'm not so sure Google is really interested in hiring the best engineers but rather a specific type of engineer.

People have previously mentioned hallway discussions at Google routinely devolve into bragging about SAT scores and GPAs. Nothing says Google must accept sub-par technical people, but Google fails to realize you don't have to be the top 0.0001% in absolute algorithms intelligence to do great work. Google's basic theme seems to be "you must be low latency ultra smart in our narrow interest areas" to pass an interview…

What is "Montessori naivety"?

Re: Google: 90% of our engineers use the software you wrote (Homebrew), but...

#368
post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, on the one hand, you should be able to answer the question with, "Get a standard-issue POSIX-conformant regex library. Next question!" On the other hand, knowing that DFAs are equivalent to regexes are equivalent to NFAs is already a step of theoretical knowledge that any "Just let me write code" so-called "dev" is likely to complain about being asked for.

I was asked that question about 7 years after reading Mastering Regular Expressions and about 10 years after taking Automata in college. It so happens that I am an expert in regex, have a patent in the field, regularly answer stackoverflow regex questions for fun, etc. Unfortunately, the question involved me actually drawing a DFA, trying to remember the notation, etc. At this point I don't even remember the particul…

Circles for states and arrows for transitions between states? Is there anything more to it than that?

Re: Google: 90% of our engineers use the software you wrote (Homebrew), but...

#369
post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has got to be the biggest hiring fallacy I've ever heard. "It's better to reject a good candidate than hire a bad candidate." That's completely false, and anyone who says that is completely ignorant of Bayesian logic. Here are some simple numbers. Suppose that a "good" candidate is a 1-in-100 find. Suppose that a "bad" candidate has a 1% chance of tricking you into hiring them anyway. Every time you pass on a "g…

This is not about numbers. A bad hire can easily cause more friction than if nobody was hired at all. Net effect for the business is negative. You're also probably severely overestimating the likelihood of a bad hire going through.

Bad hires can be fired. Bad rejections poison the well for hiring the good candidates who never apply because of hearing about all the bad rejections.

Re: Google: 90% of our engineers use the software you wrote (Homebrew), but...

#370
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am dismayed by the way all the reactions on Twitter are piling on with outrage and/or relating similar experiences. Inverting a binary tree is pretty easy. It is not quite as trivial as FizzBuzz, but it is something any programmer should be able to do. If you can't do it, you probably don't understand recursion, which is a very basic programming concept. This isn't one of those much-maligned trick interview questio…

> If you can't do it, you probably don't understand recursion No, I can't do it (don't even understand the question) but I certainly understand what recursion is, and can solve problems and make things work far more reliably than many of the more academic programmers I have worked with.

Well one of the points of an interview is to see how (or if) the person goes about understanding problems the context of a given problem. So presumably it's unclear to inverse a binary tree to you - that's why you ask clarifying questions. Perhaps you draw what you think it means and ask if that's correct. What will be considered the root if it's just a matter of reversing the direction of the pointers? Stuff like that. Google isn't dumb, and I'd be willing to bet that it's questions like those that are just as important than coding the solution (since it won't be that hard once you clarify the problem).

Here's an example to think about: You're asked to write a method that, given a word and a book, will return the number of times that word appears in the book. A logical way to continue would be to (after clarifying what a book is represented as and things like that) write a simple method that iterates over the book and counts how many occurrences of the words there are, and returns that. Is that a good answer? No, because you failed to ask questions like whether the method might be called many times for the same book (in which case it'd be better to build a map of words to occurrences). Or maybe the interviewer would say that it'd only be called once per book, in which your solution is perfect. The bottom line is that coding isn't as important as the way you approach the problem to the interviewer.

The best analogy I've heard for this: If you wanted to judge whether a person was a good chess or card player by seeing just a couple moves or hands - you wouldn't just look at the couple moves/hands played - it'd give you very little information. But if you asked the player to explain their whole thought process for the moves/hands, you'd get a much better indication of how good or mediocre that player was.

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