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US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

reuters.com

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Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#391

Post by skeptic_ai »

re-thc wrote: post #375
torginus wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that even work? If Z.ai wants to buy lets say GPUs for AI training, what's stopping them from going to a local reseller? Its not even circumventing the rules, its the natural thing to do. For that matter, does (only) NVIDIA make datacenter cards? When I buy a gaming card, I dont buy from NVIDIA, I buy from an integrator, like Gigabyte, who work with a company like Foxconn to make the cards.

> How does that even work? If Z.ai wants to buy let's say GPUs for AI training, what's stopping them from going to a local reseller? In theory, the whole chain has to comply. And if you don't you get fined etc. So the local reseller would risk not be able to resell.

Have you been in shenzhen? You can just buy in many stores a real 5090 imported from Japan

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#393

Post by [deleted] »

apatheticonion wrote: post #320

I use DeepSeek every day (via VSCode Insiders and Zed Editor). It's very affordable and, while it's slightly behind Claude (not sure how far behind Fable), it suits my working style well. I'm not using unsupervised multi-agent workflows and don't need a library of skills files - I'm writing most of the code and leaning on AI to help with mundane tasks - like; - generating types for APIs - generating boilerplate based…

[deleted]

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#394

Post by cwel »

teravor wrote: post #388
cwel wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Chinese nationals should be assumed to act on behalf of China I acknowledged this, you quoted it. > it really isn't difficult to understand... Where does 'it' end? Is the subsidiary not operating at the behest of their parent? I need to know when it's safe to no longer be scared.

> Where does 'it' end? Is the subsidiary not operating at the behest of their parent? corporations are financial fictions. the risk I am discussing is literally the mass destruction and murder of civilians during a time of war. individuals carrying it out will be subject to sanctions (including elimination), only those who are protected by their government will carry out such instructions. and therefore national secu…

Oh, so the point is that cars are scary. true, you have unlocked +1t in funding for the DoD.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#395

Post by Cakez0r »

hodgehog11 wrote: post #389
apatheticonion wrote: post #320

I use DeepSeek every day (via VSCode Insiders and Zed Editor). It's very affordable and, while it's slightly behind Claude (not sure how far behind Fable), it suits my working style well. I'm not using unsupervised multi-agent workflows and don't need a library of skills files - I'm writing most of the code and leaning on AI to help with mundane tasks - like; - generating types for APIs - generating boilerplate based…

In terms of price-to-productivity, nothing will beat DeepSeek right now. For what you have described, all of the existing frontier models will perform well (probably about the same even). If you expanded the list to very hard research tasks, Fable was so far ahead of the others that it doesn't even deserve debate. If you are a researcher doing something involving scientific computation or mathematics that wasn't reje…

Mimo 2.5 pro is the best intelligence / dollar

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#396

Post by kordlessagain »

azinman2 wrote: post #334
matheusmoreira wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're probably going to ban GPU exports to China. Which will of course accelerate the development of their own GPUs. More products for us.

China is already going as hard as they can on their own GPUs. When has availability of non-Chinese tech in China meant China didn't ultimately come up with homegrown replacements?

I saw they have the ASML-type lasers working but are a ways out on getting it to print.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#397

Post by throwburn202605 »

hodgehog11 wrote: post #386
godelski wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As an Australian, I'm not sure that I care about the safety of my data when it comes to LLMs. US companies already stole scores of data I'm not sure I understand this. I'm not defending the US, but isn't your data being in more hands worse? Also, isn't Australia in a more contentious situation with China? Them being more allied with the US and all? Not to mention the whole nuclear sub issue. Having data stolen is s…

Historically speaking, the US might even be a larger risk to Australia than China is. The US alliance goes back a long way, and so does the opposition to US influence. Since the Whitlam government, MPs are generally fearful of US retaliation, rendering much of our politics hostage to US influence. Of course, some PMs have openly embraced the US so this feeling isn't universal. But many of our issues are directly tied…

You don't even need to step foot on US soil for the US to be a risk to you

c.f. Kim Dotcom

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#398

Post by atty »

Cakez0r wrote: post #395
hodgehog11 wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In terms of price-to-productivity, nothing will beat DeepSeek right now. For what you have described, all of the existing frontier models will perform well (probably about the same even). If you expanded the list to very hard research tasks, Fable was so far ahead of the others that it doesn't even deserve debate. If you are a researcher doing something involving scientific computation or mathematics that wasn't reje…

Mimo 2.5 pro is the best intelligence / dollar

In most cases it seems (at least to me and colleagues) to be turning out that picking best intelligence is a better option than picking better intelligence / dollar, assuming you can afford the cost. At least on interesting problems. If you’re doing generic web dev work, probably not the case.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#399

Post by hsuduebc2 »

p-e-w wrote: post #346
globalnode wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using laws to ban competitors is just economic warfare thats all. Its got nothing to do with "national security", thats just the reason they give us normies. You should be safe in Australia since they actually need to be friends with China.

What? Every country has the right to freely decide which companies are permitted to operate under its jurisdiction, and exercising that right isn’t “warfare” of any kind.

Poeple talking about 'trade war' must drive you crazy.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#400

Post by apatheticonion »

fraXis wrote: post #357
apatheticonion wrote: post #320

I use DeepSeek every day (via VSCode Insiders and Zed Editor). It's very affordable and, while it's slightly behind Claude (not sure how far behind Fable), it suits my working style well. I'm not using unsupervised multi-agent workflows and don't need a library of skills files - I'm writing most of the code and leaning on AI to help with mundane tasks - like; - generating types for APIs - generating boilerplate based…

How are you accessing their API? Through OpenRouter, or direct? Are you using DeepSeek v4 Pro? $2 seems a lot cheaper than my own experience accessing them through OpenRouter for over 100 million tokens, but I am using OpenRouter to access v4 pro.

I am using Flash and accessing the API directly via vscode insiders and occasionally Zed (it's buggy but I keep coming back to it because I want it to succeed).

Unless you need enterprise multi-model management, I don't see the point in OpenRouter as it just adds cost overhead and you can just self-host an open router alternative (LiteLLM, Bifrost, etc). Running an LLM gateway locally is kind of nice as it allows you to normalize your configurations against your internal gateway - but I haven't really needed to.

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