Cryonic preservation is assisted suicide but with a small bonus chance of living forever. Seems preferable.
It's a scam.
Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland
391–400 of 655 posts
Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland
#392Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland
#393Earlier quoted context omitted.
> we should euthanize another human You are shiftinf the topic. This is about self-euthanization, assisted suicide. Not others. > Where do we draw the line? As written elsewhere, having to draw a line does not mean that the only reasonable conclusion is to make it illegal in general. It's a hard topic without easy answers. "Don't allow it" is an easy answer that doesn't do justice to the topics complexity. A good fri…
It is not really a shift. The slippery slope is the heart of the debate. Once assisted suicide is allowed, the line between respecting autonomy and others making that decision blurs. Safeguards may help, but asking where to draw the line is the central problem.
I'm not arguing either side, but I'd like to note that human societies have been drawing various lines dealing with the legal and ethical issues surrounding the death of other people in various stages of age, competency and guilt, usually without descending into a free-for-all killing frenzy.
When things get bad, it was usually not the drawing of lines that did it, but the intention and underlying stance on the rights and indeed humanity of others. The line is not what makes the slope slippery, but a pervasive lack of empathy seems to do it. We also know that bad actors do not care about lines much.
So I think that slippery slope is not a powerful argument on its own.
Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland
#394I used to be for assisted suicide but I have changed to be against. The things that changed my mind is seeing how it has gone in countries that have implemented it like The Netherlands and Canada with what I consider to unethical assisted suicide of people with mental disorders and disabilities. It smacks of state sanctioned killings disguised as charity. The second one was what kind of psychopath assists in the killing and why is that person allowed to keep practicing. Finally if we can kill ill people what really is the difference in implementing the death penalty and justifying it by ending the criminal insane’s suffering?
Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland
#395Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not like life stops when someone (with a grave an irreversible condition that causes suffering) dies. It goes on with the young generations (i.e. the billions of them!). I think too much clinging to a single life causes the whole (which is more important) to suffer. That's not to say we shouldn't value and respect elders, but clinging to life excessively is ignorant and potentially cruel, in my humble opinion. I…
The alternative being when someone becomes inconvenient to others we should encourage their death? What good is compassion or empathy when the lesser in society could just go off and die, right? Why stop at incurable diseases? Political opponents, coworkers, nasty service workers, double parkers, lawyers, and many other groups cause a lot of anguish and suffering.
Nobody's saying that anyone should be encouraged to die. That is an evil thing. But that does not mean that people should not be permitted to choose to die vs suffer.
Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland
#396Earlier quoted context omitted.
3 years living vs dying is a 3 year net improvement on life. Such silly statement. By your logic we should kill everyone at their peak.
On the contrary, I urge you to consider whether it is your statement that is overly dismissive. Is there perhaps some existing conditioning, maybe in the form of religious upbringing that is driving your reaction to this? Many of us in fact find OP's a very thoughtful comment than a "silly statement". > By your logic we should kill everyone at their peak. No, they suggested that the old and ailing whose quality of li…
The problem is on your end.
Consider the following scenarios:
There is a red button that orders your euthanasia. Pressing it instantly teleports you to a euthanasia facility and leads to your death unless you say no within 30 seconds. The button reads your fingerprint and can only be pressed by you. (Assume science fiction level technology to make this true)
1. The button is located 5000 km away from you in an unknown location.
2. The location is known.
3. You can order the delivery of the button to you for $50
4. The button is in your basement
5. The button is next to your bed
6. The button is on your keyboard and mouse
7. The button is on your keychain
Now consider there is a blue button with the same rules as above, which makes you feel compelled to press the first button for a day and it can be pressed by anyone.
You'd want the red button as far away from you as possible and the blue button secured in a location that is as inaccessible to others as possible.
In today's society there are too many people obsessed with pressing blue buttons. Also, pressing blue buttons is not a crime, because red buttons happen to be pretty far away from most people.
But now there are people obsessed with pressing red buttons. They want to ship the red button to your house on your behalf, while thinking they are doing you a favor.
This would be okay if the blue button pressing people were a minority and there was a punishment for pressing blue buttons, but it turns out both positions are popular and when averaged together, the buttons will be placed next to each other, thereby turning the blue button into a second red button.
Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland
#397Earlier quoted context omitted.
My brother had schizophrenia. No one thought well of him. I guess he should have killed himself as well by the logic some are professing on here. Oh, he tried, but he ended up dying of heart disease. > Maybe a better focus would be that there often isn't a good way for a community to manage a person who suddenly becomes irrational because of an illness. Yes, this is the focus. Science has stalled when it comes to neu…
Dementia and Alzheimer is not something that can simply be managed throught treatment. It is an inexorable descent into suffering for both the person and its entourage with absolutely zero hope of getting better. At best in the last stages you get very short glimpses of normality within hours of confusions, frustrations, anger and pain. If I am ever diagnosed with one of those, I absolutely want the chance to end my…
I’ve had a lot of people suffer in my life from health conditions, ranging from mental illness, heart disease, and cancer. And I’ve had to take care of them all at different times. Did I consider this a burden or a gift? Oh, it was hard, but does that mean it’s a burden?
If you think you’ll be a burden on your loved ones can we really say they’re your loved ones? This is a serious question. If you’re thinking that you’ll be a burden do you think that these people really love you?
At least I would want to let them use experimental drugs, or do anything to further the cause of curing Alzheimer’s.
But again, this is all far from the original article about an old man who decided to die because well, we don’t really know, he just didn’t see the point of living anymore.
Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland
#398I had an old teacher who died almost a year ago. Great guy, very sociable, knew everyone in the little town he lived in. Kept in touch with a lot of students. Good neighbour, friendly guy who'd talk to everyone. He got Alzheimers. He started forgetting stuff, and it frustrated him. He got caught driving dangerously, and cursed the doctor who took away his license. He argued with me about the state of some chicken he…
It doesn't seem pleasant for the person themself either. Constant frustration, gaps in your memory growing ever larger, disorientation, loss — periodically augmented by brief flickers of recollection of what you used to be — and yet no one can legally end your misery, because you can likely no longer unequivocally consent to euthanasia or assisted suicide, even if you explicitly signed a declaration that you did not…
Some places permit consent in advance, the person specifies the conditions but hands the evaluation of whether they have been met to the doctor.
Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland
#399Earlier quoted context omitted.
> we should euthanize another human You are shiftinf the topic. This is about self-euthanization, assisted suicide. Not others. > Where do we draw the line? As written elsewhere, having to draw a line does not mean that the only reasonable conclusion is to make it illegal in general. It's a hard topic without easy answers. "Don't allow it" is an easy answer that doesn't do justice to the topics complexity. A good fri…
It is not really a shift. The slippery slope is the heart of the debate. Once assisted suicide is allowed, the line between respecting autonomy and others making that decision blurs. Safeguards may help, but asking where to draw the line is the central problem.
Where do we have an example of the medical community engaging in any sort of slippery slope in this regard?
The politicians, yes. Auschwitz may return but it won't be voluntary.
Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland
#400Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can quite easily draw a line that society does not get to force someone to live a tormented existence in spite of their prior declaration that they do not want to be tormented. “It shouldn't be that way” is not an excuse to torture people through your moralizing indifference to the fact that it is that way.
But do people who have dementia or say a mental illness have the capacity to make that decision? It sounds like Daniel Kahneman was suffering from depression after his wife's death and all he saw in the rest of his life was sadness. He had no hope. What day was the best day to die? What if the next day his hope came back?
Why do you see depression? Note the article mentions a partner--he lost his wife but he had found someone else so I do not think this is a result of losing his wife.