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The $25k car is going extinct?

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Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#391

Post by ReptileMan »

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #80
Glawen wrote: post #24

Aka how to shoot yourself in the foot and hand over the market to Chinese manufacturer. In Europe, only Renault created a low cost brand (Dacia). Once chinese brands become commonplace everywhere, tradional carmakers will have a hard time taking back market share. In Europe they closed or are closing the last HCOL factories, killing any remaining brand loyalty.

The sad thing is it'll be a slow death. As American / German / Japanese still hold cultural cachet over Chinese/ Vietnamese cars, the companies will delude themselves into going off a cliff till a new gen comes and doesn't care about that cachet and just cares about price

I don't know. Lately the basic expectation even for Temu Chinesium it to work and work well. So I have been taking chances on bigger and bigger ticket items that are made in china and are of good quality for a fraction of the price of the western things. Made in China doesn't carry such big stigma lately. So I don't think that the headwinds toward them (unlike everything изделано в СССР) are that strong. I mean can't be worse than a Renault.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#392

Post by A_D_E_P_T »

mschuster91 wrote: post #381
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's true that affordable European models are disappearing. The average mid-range offering from, say, Volkswagen, has become quite surprisingly expensive. But this is why Chinese cars are taking over in Europe. Half the new cars I see are from Geely, BYD, Chery, etc. These average about 20,000-25,000 EUR new. My own opinion, having looked into the matter a bit, is that you'd have to be insane to buy a Volkswagen or B…

> If I were in the market for a new car, I wouldn't consider anything but a Chinese car. The problem with these are a few things: 1. service network. When something goes kaput with a VW, BMW, Mercedes, Ford, GM, Toyota and even Tesla, there's ample service stations available to get the car back up and running. With a Chinese manufacturer no one but car nerds has heard about? Good luck finding anyone willing to even t…

These are quite laughable, even disingenuous-seeming, objections.

- Everywhere they're sold there is a service center and parts are cheap. As for "Chinese manufacturer no one but car nerds has heard about":

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automotive_manufacture...

- The "chinesium" meme thing is a joke, you realize that, right? This is not a serious objection. Even the original greentext from ~2013 was really dumb, with the purchaser not running adequate tests.

- CATL is pretty much the undisputed champion of making high-end batteries.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#394

Post by cbg0 »

epolanski wrote: post #306
puzzlingcaptcha wrote: post #261

You can still buy a new subcompact car (like a Renault Clio or Skoda Fabia) in Europe for under 20k EUR. The more interesting question is why these cars disappeared in the US. And while many of the factors discussed here are true for both EU and US (inflation, interest rates, manufacturer profit margins etc) I am surprised no one mentioned the 'SUV loophole' of US regulations that effectively boosted the SUVs (off-ro…

> like a Renault Clio or Skoda Fabia Few caveats: - those are generally promotional prices - those prices are generally tied to financing (you really can't buy it cash at those prices, you need to finance it through them at crazy 7/8%+ rates) - you can wait for the car even 10 months

Not really, there's 43 brand new Clios available for pickup in Romania right now, starts at €17100, with the full hybrid €21000 before incentives.

14 Skoda Fabias in stock starting at €17625; €20500 if you want a few options and an automatic gearbox.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#395

Post by hibikir »

numpad0 wrote: post #228
zeroq wrote: post #124

Last year we bought a car. While not being a petrol head I was still living in a lala land where you could buy a brand new car for 10k EUR. Nothing fancy, just "a car". Obviously it turned out to be not true. After some digging it turned out that in the last 10 years the price of cars went double. Literally double. Same car, like Fiat Panda, with the same engine and configuration, that ten years was worth one potato…

> EU offers up to 10k EUR subvention for electric cars and with that in mind you can get something like BYD Dolphin for slighly less than 20k EUR. Which is mind blowing. BYD Dolphin? MSRP for that car where I am is at 2.99m JPY(17k EUR, 20k USD). You guys are getting screwed.

Higher transport costs, plus very large tariffs on Chinese electric cars. The EU believes (quite accurately), that there wouldn't be much of a EV industry if they let the real prices stand on their own. So there's the big tariff, and a rebate that blanks it, but also subsidizes the EU competitor.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#396

Post by aembleton »

neogodless wrote: post #142
nradov wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, status is a factor. But for people who do a lot of driving, having a nice car really benefits their quality of life. No one wants to spend hours every day in a miserable little penalty box.

This is very subjective. The cars people today call a "little penalty box" are easily equivalent or better to many of the luxury cars of the 1990s. Bluetooth, AC, ABS, backup camera. There's almost nothing that isn't required / standard. Plus they tend to be the efficient 35+ mpg cars.

Plenty of tech, but are the seats as comfortable?

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#397

Post by matthewowen »

OwlsParlay wrote: post #352
dismalaf wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because a big part of owning a vehicle is summer roadtrips, ski vacations, visiting family, moving stuff. An SUV is simply more convenient. I've also found road maintenance is getting worse where I live, it's almost necessary having an SUV or truck just to navigate the suburbs. Also the (semi) compact crossover has kind of killed the compact car. You get more space, better ground clearance, for a decent price.

That's a big part of it for you perhaps, but not for everyone?

IME it's a big part of it for a lot of people. People don't buy a car for what they do with it every day, they buy it for what they do with it a few times a year. If you have a boat on a trailer, you buy a vehicle that can pull the trailer. If you drive to the mountains in winter a few times a year, you buy a higher clearance AWD vehicle so that you can skip chain control.

You might say that this irrational and that people might be better off renting something on the occasion that they need to tow something, or go on a long road trip, or fit more than five people in their car. But people are irrational and they really do make these choices!

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#398

Post by Ozzie_osman »

The US seems insulated from the downward pricing pressure of Chinese cars. In most of the rest of the world, you can get a Chinese car ~30% (by my estimate) cheaper than a European or American one. It'll probably have more options and additions, too. I'm not sure how they'd do on reliability or safety, but it's generally hard to compete with them. Some of them offer 1M kilometer 10-year warranties.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#399

Post by aembleton »

BanterTrouble wrote: post #366
pattle wrote: post #361

Spending $25k on a car (if they exist) is just an insane thing to do in my opinion. In the UK we are quite lucky in that the used car market is very good. I always just buy a ~£1,000 diesel and run it into the ground, then rinse and repeat. I think in 17 years of motoring I've spent around £5,500 in total on cars.

It is a shame people run them into the ground. If looked after and a bit of money (not a lot of money) spent they would work well for another decade or two.

Its more expensive with the cost of labour in the UK to keep a car going, especially once it starts needing welding. We apply a lot of salt to the roads in the winter so after 20 years most cars will need welding work.

Second hand cars are also cheaper in the UK compared to other countries because we're right hand drive so there aren't as many markets that they can be exported to second hand.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#400

Post by lostlogin »

CalRobert wrote: post #334
dismalaf wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because a big part of owning a vehicle is summer roadtrips, ski vacations, visiting family, moving stuff. An SUV is simply more convenient. I've also found road maintenance is getting worse where I live, it's almost necessary having an SUV or truck just to navigate the suburbs. Also the (semi) compact crossover has kind of killed the compact car. You get more space, better ground clearance, for a decent price.

What you don’t mention are the increased negative externalities of your larger vehicle, including a higher chance of killing people, more road space used for parking, worse visibility for others, etc.

But mentioned: the increased road damage by heavier vehicles.

The Forth Power Law. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_power_law

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