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The $25k car is going extinct?

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Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#331

Post by svacko »

epolanski wrote: post #306
puzzlingcaptcha wrote: post #261

You can still buy a new subcompact car (like a Renault Clio or Skoda Fabia) in Europe for under 20k EUR. The more interesting question is why these cars disappeared in the US. And while many of the factors discussed here are true for both EU and US (inflation, interest rates, manufacturer profit margins etc) I am surprised no one mentioned the 'SUV loophole' of US regulations that effectively boosted the SUVs (off-ro…

> like a Renault Clio or Skoda Fabia Few caveats: - those are generally promotional prices - those prices are generally tied to financing (you really can't buy it cash at those prices, you need to finance it through them at crazy 7/8%+ rates) - you can wait for the car even 10 months

This depends on the EU country, I've just checked official Skoda site for our country and I found brand new 157 Skoda Fabia models available for the same day pickup below 20k without any special financing (from these 85 below 18k, and 22 below 16k)

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#332

Post by raxxorraxor »

whatevaa wrote: post #316
puzzlingcaptcha wrote: post #261

You can still buy a new subcompact car (like a Renault Clio or Skoda Fabia) in Europe for under 20k EUR. The more interesting question is why these cars disappeared in the US. And while many of the factors discussed here are true for both EU and US (inflation, interest rates, manufacturer profit margins etc) I am surprised no one mentioned the 'SUV loophole' of US regulations that effectively boosted the SUVs (off-ro…

They are disappearing in europe too. Emissions and other required by law equipment costs just as much on cheap car as it does on expensive one. At some point, cheap cars stop beinf cheap, just a bit cheaper but with way worse quality, so they stop making sense.

These regulations are probably used for protectionism. The consumer has to pay for that though. I don't think the market for new cars within the EU can exist for very long with these rules in place.

They partially demand systems that aren't fully developed yet, it is a completely insane thing to do. I guess other manufacturers pushed the EU to install the requirements to protect the dwindling domestic market.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#333

Post by tshaddox »

lmm wrote: post #264
qznc wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Houses do not increase in value. Land property does (usually). Houses decrease.

> Houses do not increase in value. They do, by a lot, if they're in desirable cities. Probably what's really increasing in value is the grandfathered permission to have built a house, but there's no way to separate that from the house.

Every part of the house depreciates without maintenance. At some point the house will depreciate and the lot will be worth less than it would be if the house was already demolished.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#334

Post by CalRobert »

dismalaf wrote: post #319
puzzlingcaptcha wrote: post #261

You can still buy a new subcompact car (like a Renault Clio or Skoda Fabia) in Europe for under 20k EUR. The more interesting question is why these cars disappeared in the US. And while many of the factors discussed here are true for both EU and US (inflation, interest rates, manufacturer profit margins etc) I am surprised no one mentioned the 'SUV loophole' of US regulations that effectively boosted the SUVs (off-ro…

Because a big part of owning a vehicle is summer roadtrips, ski vacations, visiting family, moving stuff. An SUV is simply more convenient. I've also found road maintenance is getting worse where I live, it's almost necessary having an SUV or truck just to navigate the suburbs. Also the (semi) compact crossover has kind of killed the compact car. You get more space, better ground clearance, for a decent price.

What you don’t mention are the increased negative externalities of your larger vehicle, including a higher chance of killing people, more road space used for parking, worse visibility for others, etc.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#335

Post by benhurmarcel »

epolanski wrote: post #306
puzzlingcaptcha wrote: post #261

You can still buy a new subcompact car (like a Renault Clio or Skoda Fabia) in Europe for under 20k EUR. The more interesting question is why these cars disappeared in the US. And while many of the factors discussed here are true for both EU and US (inflation, interest rates, manufacturer profit margins etc) I am surprised no one mentioned the 'SUV loophole' of US regulations that effectively boosted the SUVs (off-ro…

> like a Renault Clio or Skoda Fabia Few caveats: - those are generally promotional prices - those prices are generally tied to financing (you really can't buy it cash at those prices, you need to finance it through them at crazy 7/8%+ rates) - you can wait for the car even 10 months

> (you really can't buy it cash at those prices, you need to finance it through them at crazy 7/8%+ rates)

Often the case, but then you can get the loan and pay it off immediately for a fee.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#336

Post by CalRobert »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #174
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> or even powered windows! An exclamation mark for lacking powered windows? Oh the humanity! I'm starting to see the problem.

An exclamation mark because the feature is cheap and omnipresent, not because of... impact, or whatever you're reading into it. It's surprising. An exclamation mark makes sense.

It’s one more thing I’d have to spend an afternoon fixing eventually.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#337

Post by mrweasel »

epolanski wrote: post #306
puzzlingcaptcha wrote: post #261

You can still buy a new subcompact car (like a Renault Clio or Skoda Fabia) in Europe for under 20k EUR. The more interesting question is why these cars disappeared in the US. And while many of the factors discussed here are true for both EU and US (inflation, interest rates, manufacturer profit margins etc) I am surprised no one mentioned the 'SUV loophole' of US regulations that effectively boosted the SUVs (off-ro…

> like a Renault Clio or Skoda Fabia Few caveats: - those are generally promotional prices - those prices are generally tied to financing (you really can't buy it cash at those prices, you need to finance it through them at crazy 7/8%+ rates) - you can wait for the car even 10 months

Looking up the Clio and it's $31,500 / €27,000, but that's partly due to the taxes on cars where. I'd guess however that you almost can't buy it.

The pricing is meant to hit a price point, in this case just below 200.000DKK. That's a promotional price, chance are that very few cars, if any, with that base package, have ever been made or imported. You can probably get it, but you'd have to wait a few months for it.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#338

Post by CalRobert »

999900000999 wrote: post #15
paulryanrogers wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars are a reflection of ones personality here in the Midwest. Some grow out of it or never subscribe to the mentality. It's certainly cheaper to bicycle, weather and health permitting. Though car driving and ownership are a big cultural phenomenon, especially among men 18-50.

Depends on the man, I’ll admit in my early twenties I meet a few partners by being car free. I legit took a girl home after I asked her if she knew why the train was late. In Amsterdam at least one of the train stations has a piano. It becomes a 3rd place were people can make friends and socialize. We don’t have many 3rd places in the US where you can exist without spending money.

A couple months ago I was sad to see the piano in Hilversum station had been badly vandalized. I assumed that was the end of that.

Yesterday I was delighted to see a nice new piano in its place.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#339

Post by CalRobert »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #34
999900000999 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the man, I’ll admit in my early twenties I meet a few partners by being car free. I legit took a girl home after I asked her if she knew why the train was late. In Amsterdam at least one of the train stations has a piano. It becomes a 3rd place were people can make friends and socialize. We don’t have many 3rd places in the US where you can exist without spending money.

Do you have example of places with density similar to US where public transport works well? Australia has some in urban centres, but otherwise car centric. Same in NZ. Elecric bus to my place costs 8x more than driving EV (before it was taxed)

It’s not public transport but I live in a single family home in a town of 60,000 people and 70% of trips are made by bikes.

https://youtu.be/r-TuGAHR78w

900 or so people per square km.

To give a random comparison (because I know it well) Sacramento has a density of 2000 per square km and far, far worse transportation.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#340

Post by Eavolution »

mdavid626 wrote: post #323

In 2004 my parents bought a brand new Skoda Fabia with 40kW engine (around 50hp). The car was pretty basic (no AC, no display etc.) and small, but it served our family of 4 for long time (still does!). The cost was 12.000 Euros. Nowadays the same car starts at 20.000 Euros.

To be fair that's with 20 years of inflation (roughly 1.55x since 2004, €18,600 today), and that car today would have 90+bhp. I'm ignoring things like head unit/ac because they're things you'd probably rather not have and not pay for by the sounds of it.
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