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Pope Francis has died

reuters.com

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Re: Pope Francis has died

#391

Post by dfxm12 »

numbers_guy wrote: post #358
swat535 wrote: post #299

Pope Francis caused quite a bit of controversy among Catholics. From his crackdown on the TLM (Traditional Latin Mass) to his often unscripted, pastoral tone on issues like sexuality, economics, and interfaith dialogue, he unsettled many and yet drew others closer to the Church. With his passing, we’re left to process a papacy that disrupted in the deepest sense of the word. As a Catholic, I often found myself both i…

Please stop talking in such general terms. No Catholics I know have been shaken by anything Pope Francis did. I have been educated in a Catholic school, which also served as a Catholic seminary, and I never heard Pope Francis say anything that was not in line with the catechism that we were taught back then.

I guess you can consider yourself lucky that the Catholics you know get the big picture. There's a whole world of Catholics out there, and unfortunately, not all do.

It does make the news. This is something we should be aware of. Here's just one such story: https://apnews.com/article/vatican-pope-francis-samesex-bles..., not to mention the recent spats from VPOTUS.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#392

Post by shiandow »

timeon wrote: post #338
jimmcslim wrote: post #237

The Vatican published an interesting document on AI [1], which attributes a number of quotes to Pope Francis: * As Pope Francis noted, the machine “makes a technical choice among several possibilities based either on well-defined criteria or on statistical inferences. Human beings, however, not only choose, but in their hearts are capable of deciding." * In light of this, the use of AI, as Pope Francis said, must be…

> * As Pope Francis observes, “the very use of the word ‘intelligence’” in connection with AI “can prove misleading” Yes, LLMs are more about knowledge than intelligence. AK rather than AI.

Interesting, I would consider knowledge to be something innately human in a way that solving problems isn't.

Though intelligence is possibly even less well defined than knowledge, so it's hard to tell.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#393

Post by ccppurcell »

grandempire wrote: post #64
hliyan wrote: post #13

I wonder whether we will have another Jesuit Pope. Jesuits are supposed to be generally very education focused, more progressive (especially w.r.t science) and stand less on ceremony. I know nothing about how the College of Cardinals work, but if they're anything like other political voting bodies, one of two outcomes are possible: a swing to the Right (and toward tradition), recognizing the current balance of power…

> especially w.r.t science I would like to know more. My impression is that most Christian institutions have long ago disentangled from scientific debate - providing interpretative value rather than alternative science. This is part of a larger trend to focus their scope and mission in modern life. Have the last few popes made comments on scientific issues? (The exception is evangelical Americans.)

I was always taught that relativity, evolution, an old universe and even a not too literal interpretation of the bible (some caveats to that last one) are perfectly compatible with Catholicism. My dad was taught by Jesuits and I was taught at a former convent school. The Vatican has an observatory and the pontifical academy of sciences is far from an "answers in genesis" type organisation.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#394

Post by ZeroClickOk »

numbers_guy wrote: post #358
swat535 wrote: post #299

Pope Francis caused quite a bit of controversy among Catholics. From his crackdown on the TLM (Traditional Latin Mass) to his often unscripted, pastoral tone on issues like sexuality, economics, and interfaith dialogue, he unsettled many and yet drew others closer to the Church. With his passing, we’re left to process a papacy that disrupted in the deepest sense of the word. As a Catholic, I often found myself both i…

Please stop talking in such general terms. No Catholics I know have been shaken by anything Pope Francis did. I have been educated in a Catholic school, which also served as a Catholic seminary, and I never heard Pope Francis say anything that was not in line with the catechism that we were taught back then.

According to the rules in the first post, I cannot talk about politics in this thread, but the summary is, the political inclinations that he displayed were "uncomfortable".

Re: Pope Francis has died

#395

Post by andybak »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #384
andybak wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern academic scholarship paints a very complex picture: https://www.bartehrman.com/hell-in-the-bible/ I would argue that reading random quotes without context can be misleading. Unless of course you believe in a univocal, consistent and divinely inspired bible - which is a fairly extreme position to take.

> I would argue that reading random quotes without context can be misleading. Unless of course you believe in a univocal, consistent and divinely inspired bible - which is a fairly extreme position to take. Those two statements don't follow. You can believe in a univocal, consistent and divinely inspired Bible and still think taking random quotes out of context is bad exegesis.

I see what you mean but I wasn't making a formal logical argument. Rather I meant something like "These particular quotes are more likely to be regarded as inherently meaningful on their own by someone who believes in a univocal, consistent and divinely inspired Bible"

Not my best-crafted piece of self-expression I will admit.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#396

Post by losvedir »

zamadatix wrote: post #286
losvedir wrote: post #236

Does anyone have any theories why his predecessor, Benedict, so shockingly resigned? (And then, according to this article, continued to live there, which was news to me). The conventional wisdom is that Benedict was a hardline, conservative nut who had to resign for unknown reasons and was replaced by this well-loved, progressive guy. As seen in this thread, lots of people liked him and his philosophy, and his progre…

Conventional wisdom is he attempted to resign 3 times, had a stroke, and had a pacemaker all before he spent a further 8 years of his career elected as pope and then actually resigned. This all extends decades prior to his final resignation, giving the same health and desire for retirement reasons as prior attempts. As for whether there was something more than the conventional wisdom to the story... I'm not really su…

I think it's relevant. We're discussing the life and impact of Pope Francis. I'm speculating that he was chosen specifically for his outward focus.

I'm a practicing but not terribly devout Catholic, and my impression of Benedict was that he was very formal and focused Pope on the Church itself (eg how we had to relearn all the prayers and responses in the Mass). Francis was much more about helping the poor of the world, and to my limited experience didn't affect Catholicism, with a Capital C, very much. His politics aligned with mine, so I didn't mind that so much, but I can't help thinking that all was very intentional, and that there be dragons lurking within the Vatican institution that are being ignored.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#397

Post by yusina »

solfox wrote: post #344
swat535 wrote: post #299

Pope Francis caused quite a bit of controversy among Catholics. From his crackdown on the TLM (Traditional Latin Mass) to his often unscripted, pastoral tone on issues like sexuality, economics, and interfaith dialogue, he unsettled many and yet drew others closer to the Church. With his passing, we’re left to process a papacy that disrupted in the deepest sense of the word. As a Catholic, I often found myself both i…

A teacher of mine often reminds me that in many cultures—like Japanese and Native American traditions—the role of having an enemy is viewed with a certain respect. Enemies help define us. They challenge us, sharpen us, and push us to grow. Western culture tends to abhor the idea of having enemies, but sometimes, having them simply means you’ve stood for something meaningful—something worth noticing. It seems Pope Fra…

"Enemy" may be the wrong word for this. To me, that implies wishing sth bad on the other party and aiming to hurt/damage/destroy it.

"Opponent"? "Antagonist"?

Re: Pope Francis has died

#398

Post by aeturnum »

fastball wrote: post #243
Trasmatta wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Bible has very little to say about hell in general.

Gonna disagree with you there. https://www.openbible.info/topics/hell

Did you read these? I think they actually go against what you argue. One of the passages about "hell" is John 3:16, which could not be less about hell if it tried (IMO). Also the passages that actually mention hell/hades are extremely sparse on details: it's separate from god, there will be fire and it will be unpleasant. Considering the length of the bible, I think this list shows that the bible has "very little" to say about hell in general.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#399

Post by hersko »

tetris11 wrote: post #12
haunter wrote: post #3

RIP. His speech yesterday (he dictated it I guess) was very very political, not on the usual level, felt like a finally "all out" for me. https://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/messages/urbi/do...

> I express my closeness to the sufferings of Christians in Palestine and Israel, and to all the Israeli people and the Palestinian people. The growing climate of anti-Semitism throughout the world is worrisome. Yet at the same time, I think of the people of Gaza, and its Christian community in particular, where the terrible conflict continues to cause death and destruction and to create a dramatic and deplorable hum…

Tangentially related: why do so many people call for a ceasefire, when a ceasefire is generally temporary. It wouldn't resolve any of the underlying reasons for the war. He should be calling for surrender.
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