ShotSpotter: listening in on the neighborhood • Hacker News Board

Re: ShotSpotter: listening in on the neighborhood

#391

Post by Talanes » Sun, Mar 03, 2024, 4:01 PM UTC

392 wrote: post #291

Fnoord wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know how it communicates with ECC? Can it be MITMed? Would it report if you were playing Counterstrike outside with speakers on? What if you were listening to some gangster rap with shots in it? Or just a Raspberry Pi with a speaker on with gunshot? It seems to me something like this can in theory DoS the ECC.

All of these are much more complicated and expensive than just sending someone off in a stolen car to fire some shots wherever you'd like the cops to be in 20 minutes or so. Convenient leash.

Depends on who's doing it. For career criminals, sure the stolen car and gun are probably easy. If it's anybody else, say some bored high school kids, then the speaker is probably a much easier option.

Re: ShotSpotter: listening in on the neighborhood

#392

Post by genman » Sun, Mar 03, 2024, 4:08 PM UTC

jcrawfordor wrote: post #71

Hello all, occasionally I write what I consider "Albuquerque content" and I do not expect it to become broadly popular. This article is something I put together very quickly and it probably assumes a certain degree of familiarity with the political context around policing in Albuquerque (which either side will tell you is very contentious) and, more broadly, policing and civil justice. Even without the currently evol…

> Many assumed that ShotSpotter coverage was concentrated in disadvantaged parts of the city, an unsurprising outcome but one that could contribute to systemic overpolicing.

Are these areas also the ones where the majority of crime takes place or not? If there exists such correlation then why bring it up? If the gun crime is the foremost issue then are you arguing that the "disadvantaged parts" should be left on their own to deal with the issue?

Re: ShotSpotter: listening in on the neighborhood

#393

Post by remram » Sun, Mar 03, 2024, 4:09 PM UTC

sbierwagen wrote: post #224

incanus77 wrote: post #54

Timely, as a boy was shot at last week in Chicago while setting off fireworks that triggered a ShotSpotter alert: https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2024/02/27/chicago-police...

He was setting off fireworks on January 25? Is there a holiday on that day I'm not aware of?

This is tone-deaf, inappropriate, and stupid. You know the answer, why do you feel the need for the implied victim-blaming?

Re: ShotSpotter: listening in on the neighborhood

#394

Post by remram » Sun, Mar 03, 2024, 4:11 PM UTC

aaron695 wrote: post #340

incanus77 wrote: post #54

Timely, as a boy was shot at last week in Chicago while setting off fireworks that triggered a ShotSpotter alert: https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2024/02/27/chicago-police...

You can listen to the ShotSpotter audio from that incident here - https://www.chicagocopa.org/case/2024-0002095/ I see nothing wrong done by ShotSpotter. It accurately reported the location of a noise that sounded like gunfire. What is timely about this? Do you want the police to not investigate gunshots? I don't care about how they approached the scene, their training has nothing to do with ShotSpotter which is the…

"interrupted activity" is the worse euphemism I have ever seen for a child being shot, even in the USA.

Re: ShotSpotter: listening in on the neighborhood

#395

Post by Eextra953 » Sun, Mar 03, 2024, 4:27 PM UTC

AvocadoPanic wrote: post #176

leumon wrote: post #134

Things like ShotSpotter are only fighting the symptoms. As an european I find it ridiculus to hear that such thing even exists. Why would we not simply ban the guns themselves?

The criminal element largely responsible for gun crime would criminally ignore the ban. They're already shooting people. The US shares a 3,145 kilometer long border with Mexico, unfortunately there are at best 1,044 km of border 'barriers' in place. People, guns, money and drugs are smuggled across the border daily.

Guns aren't smuggled in from the Southern border. If anything guns are smuggled out of the USA into mexico, how do you think the cartels get their guns?

Re: ShotSpotter: listening in on the neighborhood

#396

Post by verteu » Sun, Mar 03, 2024, 4:38 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #343

verteu wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

edit: Good point, I agree that parallel construction is an important concern, especially since there's so little transparency in police investigations. One possible solution is to force them to limit the duration recorded to only a few seconds. (I previously thought that's how ShotSpotter worked. Turns out they've kept days of audio before, apparently for "debugging purposes.") > Drug crime is known to be fairly even…

Audio evidence is being used such as in the Massachusetts case. PS: You are quoting my previous post not an edit: "Drug crime is known to be fairly evenly distributed across different incomes, arrests are extremely biased." is from further up the thread.

Yes, I know that part is a previous post. You also heavily edited GP, but current state of comments is reasonable now.

Re: ShotSpotter: listening in on the neighborhood

#397

Post by mcmcmc » Sun, Mar 03, 2024, 4:49 PM UTC

ltbarcly3 wrote: post #327

mcmcmc wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Johns Hopkins has plenty of great research: “Funding for programs that clean and rehabilitate blighted and abandoned property are associated with both decreases in gun violence of up to 39% over one year and improved community health.” https://publichealth.jhu.edu/center-for-gun-violence-solutio... To be fair after checking SoundThinking’s website they do have some research showing similar levels of violence reductio…

This sounds an awful like it is saying the solution to crime is to gentrify? What happened to the communities in the study? If you suddenly increase property values in a community where almost everyone rents, guess how many can afford to stay?

If that's what it sounds like, I'll hazard a guess that you never made it to the research.

Re: ShotSpotter: listening in on the neighborhood

#398

Post by ta988 » Sun, Mar 03, 2024, 4:52 PM UTC

jncfhnb wrote: post #363

bko wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Police presence increased the detection of crime and thus increases the statistics of crime in the area

So the bodies of people shot are seen more often in high police presence areas and just not found in other areas? That seem strange that it would be due to higher police presence. The fact that for non violent crimes the stats are skewed sound plausible but that seem less so for violent ones.

Re: ShotSpotter: listening in on the neighborhood

#399

Post by w0z_ » Sun, Mar 03, 2024, 4:56 PM UTC

ragazzina wrote: post #322

eBombzor wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like how all 3 replies ignored the part where I put in context "the moment police were getting close", as if to assume I was asking why fireworks were ignited at night in general. I saw the body cam footage, and the cops legitimately thought someone was shooting at them, because when they got close, they heard, what literally sounded like gunshots. Should they have just blind fired? Absolutely not, terrible trainin…

>the cops legitimately thought someone was shooting at them But cops always "legitimately" think someone is shooting at them. Have you heard of the acorn incident?

Forty-seven officers were shot and killed in the line of duty in 2023. That's about 1 a week.

Re: ShotSpotter: listening in on the neighborhood

#400

Post by tristor » Sun, Mar 03, 2024, 5:13 PM UTC

ltbarcly3 wrote: post #327

mcmcmc wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Johns Hopkins has plenty of great research: “Funding for programs that clean and rehabilitate blighted and abandoned property are associated with both decreases in gun violence of up to 39% over one year and improved community health.” https://publichealth.jhu.edu/center-for-gun-violence-solutio... To be fair after checking SoundThinking’s website they do have some research showing similar levels of violence reductio…

This sounds an awful like it is saying the solution to crime is to gentrify? What happened to the communities in the study? If you suddenly increase property values in a community where almost everyone rents, guess how many can afford to stay?

On a macro level, evidence does strongly support that gentrification is a good thing. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t have downsides, including displacing low income residents in areas being gentrified. The fact this also creates huge reductions in crime is not coincidental though.

There’s a bit of a chicken and egg problem here nobody wants to wrestle with: 1. Poor people commit the vast majority of violent crime. 2. People with records of convictions of violent crime cannot get stable employment. 3. There is a measurable intelligence and emotional regulation gap at the average between violent criminals and productive members of society. 4. There is a measurable intelligence gap associated with income in our modern knowledge-based society. 5. Inability to get stable employment and low impulse control both are major contributing factors to recidivism.

It’s a heavily intractable problem, it’s clear retributive justice is not as effective as rehabilitative justice, but creating a feeling of duty of care in the communities harmed by crime is a nearly impossible ask. Gentrification at least provides a way out to improve communities for those residents who can afford to stay.