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Zoom terms now allow training AI on user content with no opt out

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Re: Zoom terms now allow training AI on user content with no opt out

#391

Post by TheRealPomax »

duccinator wrote: post #250
TheRealPomax wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the part where the reason the US keeps allowing it is that "if we don't, China will", as if China has access to the same flood of data that US FAANG companies and contenders like Zoom have access to every second of every day. Sure, at the government level it has access to the same data as everyone else, but that firewall's still there, can't have an AI trained on data that might give a more worldly view on mat…

China might not be as successful as the west(yet) but they have their own ecosystem and have alternatives for most tech products. All the tech companies in China are practically under the control of the party. China also has a billion+ people, even the market is smaller than the west, I think they will manage. Not to mention the difference in privacy laws and a higher number of stem grads to throw at the problem.

So we agree: that was my point. China is not a competitor for western markets, meaning the argument that "If we don't do it, China will" is fucking ridiculous, as China doesn't have access to the data necessary to make things that WORK for the western market.

Re: Zoom terms now allow training AI on user content with no opt out

#392

Post by TheRealPomax »

gumballindie wrote: post #276
TheRealPomax wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the part where the reason the US keeps allowing it is that "if we don't, China will", as if China has access to the same flood of data that US FAANG companies and contenders like Zoom have access to every second of every day. Sure, at the government level it has access to the same data as everyone else, but that firewall's still there, can't have an AI trained on data that might give a more worldly view on mat…

Even china isnt silly enough to record people’s conversations to “train” ais. Corporate dictatorships have truly overtaken communist dictatorships.

....what? Which century are you living in that China does record people's conversations?

Re: Zoom terms now allow training AI on user content with no opt out

#393

Post by TheRealPomax »

Buttons840 wrote: post #386
TheRealPomax wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Odds of any company spending the millions of dollars required to do that poorly, let alone going the extra distance to do it right: about zero.

What is so hard about it? It's a web app and some video manipulation. It would be nice if computers were usable enough that this would take a weekend.

The part where "it's a web app and some video manipulation" requires hiring about a million dollars worth of "at least three developers" (which costs a company their salary plus that entire salary again for insurance, health care coverage, etc) to write and maintain that app for you, plus the at least another million that it'll set you back ensuring that you have all the hardware in all your offices to make that smooth rather than "OH FOR FUCKS SAKE CAN WE PLEASE JUST USE ZOOM WHAT THE FUCK" from every single employee.

Re: Zoom terms now allow training AI on user content with no opt out

#394

Post by TheRealPomax »

musha68k wrote: post #305
TheRealPomax wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Odds of any company spending the millions of dollars required to do that poorly, let alone going the extra distance to do it right: about zero.

I don’t know, we might be closer to quality of service parity than we think. Even without taking into account “costs” of blatant privacy disregard / violation, data theft, potential industrial espionage, etc. If the tools continue to get better at the current rate; then the SREs you have to hire anyways will probably be able to deliver about equal results (while staying in control of the data). I’m thinking about tho…

You're not going up against "how hard is it to roll your own", you're going up against "how inconvenient is it compared to Zoom". You can spend millions to make something that works but unless it's as good as Zoom is (and that's going to cost you a few million to develop from scratch, even with off-the-shelf FOSS components, and FAR more if you're hiring experts to write it scratch) your CEO should, and I stress *absolutely should* (because their responsibility is to shareholders, not to employees) go "how is this better than zoom, and why are we not using that instead so we can put that money in our own wallet?".

Re: Zoom terms now allow training AI on user content with no opt out

#395

Post by turbojerry »

gnicholas wrote: post #376
zeusk wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it isn't for you solely/exclusively. If it "improves" the service for everyone - that includes "you".

Yep, I acknowledge that is a possibility, but it would also lead to them having permission to display literally the entirety of my videonconf calls to anyone, for advertising purposes or some other purpose that only incidentally benefits me. That would be a strained reading IMO.

To misquote Bill Clinton, it depends on what the means of 'you' is.

Re: Zoom terms now allow training AI on user content with no opt out

#396

Post by benatkin »

gnicholas wrote: post #376
zeusk wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it isn't for you solely/exclusively. If it "improves" the service for everyone - that includes "you".

Yep, I acknowledge that is a possibility, but it would also lead to them having permission to display literally the entirety of my videonconf calls to anyone, for advertising purposes or some other purpose that only incidentally benefits me. That would be a strained reading IMO.

More like a certainty :)

Re: Zoom terms now allow training AI on user content with no opt out

#397

Post by danShumway »

Tangentially related, but a number of telehealth operations with hospitals/therapists/etc... use Zoom -- I suspect because their clients can connect without an app or an account over a browser.

When you join a Zoom session over the browser, you don't sign a TOS. And I assume that actual licensed medical establishments are under their own TOS provisions that are compatible with HIPPA requirements. Training on voice-to-text transcription, etc... would be a pretty huge privacy violation particularly in the scope of services like therapy. Both because there are demonstrable attacks on AIs to get training data out of them, and because presumably that data would then be accessible to employees/contractors who were validating that it was fit for training.

Out of curiosity, has anyone using telehealth checked with their doctor/therapist to see what Zoom's privacy policies are for them?

Re: Zoom terms now allow training AI on user content with no opt out

#398

Post by s5ma6n »

zakember wrote: post #345

This is not new. These terms were quietly updated on 1st April 2023. Looks like very few people noticed it until now. https://web.archive.org/web/20230401045359/https://explore.z...

I am really puzzled how are they able to "quietly" update the terms without notifying their users? Everybody was joking about the emails (We have updated our terms...) raining from every company when GDPR et al. got introduced. What changed?

Re: Zoom terms now allow training AI on user content with no opt out

#399

Post by Tokumei-no-hito »

wkat4242 wrote: post #375
arun-mani-j wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 for Jitsi. They are awesome, lightweight, and just work with the least hassle. Pretty bad that many nontechnical users are not aware of it compared to Google Meet or Teams.

It's also much more responsive than teams. They seem to optimize frame rate over resolution and teams seems to do the opposite. Having used both I find the framerate more important as it's much easier to interpret quick facial expressions. But teams looks glossier which makes it easier to sell I guess.

Have you experienced anything like this other commenter mentioned?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37022878

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