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Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

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Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#391

Post by anshumankmr »

YPCrumble wrote: post #337
loeg wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not great if your bank arbitrarily decides Linux isn't a supported operating system, for example.

Wouldn’t this just mean I should change my bank?

That would be difficult to do, if say all banks decide to only support Windows/MacOs. My bank that I use is a bit wonky on Firefox but works fine on Chrome. Some banks even refuse to run on Firefox. Also, switching banks might be more difficult than switching an OS. And you would lose the reward points if any if you switch a bank, not to mention, if you use autopay that is configured to withdraw from a certain card, you would need to go and reconfigure that everywhere.

It is not technically impossible, it's just going to arduous.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#392

Post by jckahn »

fps_doug wrote: post #7
topshelf wrote: post #2

Disappointing to see such a 180 on 'don't be evil'. I'm recommending Mozilla Firefox to all friends and family.

I do, and I keep having those tiring conversations, but it's really hard to get the point across in layman's terms. I have enough friends in tech who stick with Chrome out of convenience instead of just falling back on it in case something actually doesn't work in Firefox. how do I convince tech illiterate people of doing this?

You can’t, realistically. I don’t think there’s any repeatable or effective way to make non-nerds (AKA most people) care about this sort of thing.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#393

Post by helen___keller »

There’s a saying, on the internet nobody knows you’re a dog.

WEI is part of a broader movement to make this false - more generally to make an internet where we know you are a human staring at a screen

It turns out having dogs (or more commonly programs and scripts) on the internet is not profitable and not good for business, so corporations want to take dogs off their websites by finding clever ways to attest that a real human with eyeballs is clicking with hands and staring at ads.

Support dog rights. Don’t allow for a WEI-dominated web.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#394

Post by magic_hamster »

c0l0 wrote: post #5

I feel like I have to repeat this, since so much is at stake here, where it is about the preservation of the web as we know it today, at the peril of having it turned into yet another walled garden: The only way around the dystopia this will lead to is to constantly and relentlessly shame and even harass all those involved in helping create it. The scolding in the issue tracker of that wretched "project" shall flow l…

I don't like Google's grasp on so many vital parts of the web but somehow, it seems like google is actually in trouble.

AI is going to completely change search if it hasn't already, and google is not even close to compete in this space.

Video has some massive competition from the likes of TikTok. Anyway, YouTube isn't the only option on the market.

Gmail is still popular but since google has been pressuring users to pay, it's been easier than ever to find a reason to try another service.

Chromium can always be forked and have some parts removed or added, and as we all know quite a few browsers do this, some are quite popular.

Is google also losing IOS ads like Meta? If they do, that's another reason for alarm for them.

I'm not sure google is in the best position for the future and WEI is not going to be their golden ticket either.

And, if your prediction that web will change actually comes to pass, well then it'll be just another cycle for this space that has changed countless times since the age of dialup. The web is going to change, again and again, but as long as people are still free to set up a server and let the world access it, we can still do what we like with it.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#395

Post by cmrdporcupine »

Xelbair wrote: post #23
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #11

Is adding a feature-flag really the same as pushing the feature into the browser immediately? It can easily just be part of a SWE needing the flag in place in order to continue work without impacting anything else, even if that thing never ever launches. In general Google engineers don't tend to work on branches, especially long-running ones. Incremental small code reviews are the expectation. The general process wou…

> Is adding a feature-flag really the same as pushing the feature into the browser immediately? It can easily just be part of a SWE needing the flag in place in order to continue work without impacting anything else, even if that thing never ever launches. Yes, because that's a such anti-consumer issue. It shouldn't exist in the first place, it should never be merged to master. There's no reason to not keep it on a s…

Honestly, if the work is going to be done (again it should not be done), I'd rather have it out in the open.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#396

Post by MSFT_Edging »

timeon wrote: post #380
MSFT_Edging wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe google has intentionally made google maps near unusable in firefox. It's been consistently working worse and worse every year. I feel like about 8 years ago there used to be parity between them.

I rarely use google maps so haven't noticed. Only thing I really miss from OSM based services is street-view.

Its really bad, it takes almost a minute for the site to "stabilize", and even then, default text in the search bar is overlaid with whatever you're typing, a good 30 seconds to load a destination.

A chrome browser on the same device has maps behave almost instantaneously.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#397

Post by devsda »

There are many arguments against this but not many brought the implications for search engines.

If websites implement this, it will effectively make building a web search engine impossible for new entrants. The current players can whitelist/attest their own clients while categorizing every other scraping clients as bots.

If not for other reasons, I can't see how Google a search company can be allowed to push something that can kill competition using its market dominance in other areas like browsers.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#398

Post by otikik »

larata_media wrote: post #40
c0l0 wrote: post #5

I feel like I have to repeat this, since so much is at stake here, where it is about the preservation of the web as we know it today, at the peril of having it turned into yet another walled garden: The only way around the dystopia this will lead to is to constantly and relentlessly shame and even harass all those involved in helping create it. The scolding in the issue tracker of that wretched "project" shall flow l…

I agree with your overall ideal of free access to information but I disagree that harassment is a necessary or even effective option to push against this. I think the harassment puts us in a category of ineffective, bitter malcontents and that’s not what we are. We are capable of going to elsewhere to free and open access to information, and we would be better off spending our energy on positively influencing others…

https://www.purewow.com/wellness/what-is-tone-policing

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#399

Post by user3939382 »

wasmy wrote: post #15

Another tame article in The Register: https://www.theregister.com/2023/07/25/google_web_environmen... Despite the spec's half-baked state, the blowback last week was swift – in the form of a flood of largely critical comments posted to the WEI GitHub repository, and abuse directed at the authors of the proposal. The Google devs' response was to limit comment posting to those who had previously contributed to the repo…

If you want to protest the knife we're driving into your stomach, you can do so, but we need to see credentials and civility.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#400

Post by Cthulhu_ »

encody wrote: post #186

It's small, but here's a real actionable item that you can do to help: Put a gentle "Use Firefox" (or any other non-Chromium-based browser) message on your website. It doesn't have to be in-your-face, just something small. I've taken my own advice and added it to my own website: https://geeklaunch.io/ (It only appears on Chromium-based browsers.) We can slowly turn the tide, little by little.

The issue with that is that most people here will only have their own website or product, which is already aimed at more tech-savvy people, who will already have made a conscious decision to use Firefox, Chrome, or whichever browser they prefer.

But we / this site only represents a small percentage. 85% market share means there are hundreds of millions, if not billions of users that would have to switch to make any kind of impact.

And you can't do that without being a very large company with an operating system or the most popular search engine or other ways to constantly tell people to use your browser, no matter how good or privacy conscious or whatever your own is.

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