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Tailscale raises $100M

tailscale.com

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Re: Tailscale raises $100M

#391
post #46

There is another interesting company in this space- Netmaker[0]. It's been getting a lot of traction in the homelab space- namely because it takes advantage of kernel wireguard, which is more performant than the userspace wireguard that tailscale uses. [0] - https://www.netmaker.org/

There's https://zerotier.com, https://netbird.io, https://defined.net, https://github.com/tonarino/innernet and likely many more.

Re: Tailscale raises $100M

#392

"To paraphrase Larry Wall, Tailscale makes easy things easy" .. Indeed, I run multiple devices via two regionally separated homes and two cheap VPS's .. RaspberryPi, Linux, MacOS and an iPhone all able to communicate effortlessly thanks to TS

Quoting Larry Wall there is surely a dig against the HN crowd that likes to quote Rich Hickey's Simple made easy presentation often? https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/LKtk3HCgTa8

Re: Tailscale raises $100M

#393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't really felt like 1Password's product materially strayed from the original mission. If anything, I'm even more delighted with the team functionality, shared vaults, quick keyboard access in 1Password 8, etc. I wouldn't put them in the Dropbox bucket. Also, I think the value Tailscale provides is fairly unique and far from obviously a platform feature like file storage and perhaps even password management.

I think they changed from their mission to make password management easy and secure to extracting service fees forever. I don’t necessarily blame them but think their decision was pushed along by the need for big money. For example, I think they’d still be able to do the pay once model if they abstracted they storage to work with Dropbox/icloud/OneDrive/whatever. There’s really no value add as a user for a monthly fe…

> For example, I think they’d still be able to do the pay once model if they abstracted they storage to work with Dropbox/icloud/OneDrive/whatever.

I get why they don't but I often wish more SaaS companies had a bring your own computer & storage model. It doesn't make sense for 95% of customers and the 5% of us who might like it and have the tech chops to use it would just complain about having to pay more because we are outliers. But I wish it was offered!

Re: Tailscale raises $100M

#394

Tailscale has a fantastic product, I’ve been extremely happy from day one. If you’re waiting for a weekend to have a few hours to try out Tailscale, don’t, it takes 15 minutes to get every device you own up and running and talking. This is the lowest friction personal VPN to ever exist, and once you see how easy it is for your own devices, you’ll wish you had it at work. The biggest risk that this company has is that…

I’m pretty ignorant on this topic, but what are the benefits of having a personal VPN?

For me, its so I can use Moonlight to stream games from my gaming desktop PC to my iPhone using a Backbone One controller.

Handheld Elden Ring is amazing :)

Though my use-case is extremely simple, and so I just use bare WireGuard

Re: Tailscale raises $100M

#395

Tailscale has a fantastic product, I’ve been extremely happy from day one. If you’re waiting for a weekend to have a few hours to try out Tailscale, don’t, it takes 15 minutes to get every device you own up and running and talking. This is the lowest friction personal VPN to ever exist, and once you see how easy it is for your own devices, you’ll wish you had it at work. The biggest risk that this company has is that…

> I’ve been dreaming lately of a tor-like network that’s based loosely on the idea of tailnets. Rather than blockchain bullshit, you’d have a direct ring of trust with friends, and then you could set up access policies to forward packets for people you don’t trust, but who know someone you do trust.

This is basically just `git pull` on steroids.

Re: Tailscale raises $100M

#396
post #9

With such a huge investment comes the obligation to eventually pay it back. Is this another one of my favourite tools going the way of Dropbox, 1Password and all other companies that were formed around what should be a platform feature, which took on way too large investment sums and were eventually forced to become the everything, losing sight of their core values? I sincerely hope not, but there's so much bad prece…

I haven't really felt like 1Password's product materially strayed from the original mission. If anything, I'm even more delighted with the team functionality, shared vaults, quick keyboard access in 1Password 8, etc. I wouldn't put them in the Dropbox bucket. Also, I think the value Tailscale provides is fairly unique and far from obviously a platform feature like file storage and perhaps even password management.

I found 1Passwords UI/UX and development tooling choices... not ideal, as of 1P v8. I miss the native apps, and the latest iOS app/integration had far too many bugs initially (I just use autofill alone now, on my iPhone. Not ideal, but good enough)

Re: Tailscale raises $100M

#397

Tailscale has a fantastic product, I’ve been extremely happy from day one. If you’re waiting for a weekend to have a few hours to try out Tailscale, don’t, it takes 15 minutes to get every device you own up and running and talking. This is the lowest friction personal VPN to ever exist, and once you see how easy it is for your own devices, you’ll wish you had it at work. The biggest risk that this company has is that…

>>I’ve been dreaming lately of a tor-like network that’s based loosely on the idea of tailnets. Rather than blockchain bullshit, you’d have a direct ring of trust with friends, and then you could set up access policies to forward packets for people you don’t trust, but who know someone you do trust.

The network will coalesce around using a handful of hub nodes for the packet forwarding, and a malicious party need only to coopt that central cluster of nodes to unmask all web users.

The "blockchain bullshit" enables trusted decentralized interaction at scale.

Re: Tailscale raises $100M

#398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, it was their switch to an Electron app. "High security" and "built from dozens of third party libraries and running on a browser" don't belong together.

Electron actually offers some of the best dependency-isolation capabilities of any language/platform given that you can set a content-security policy and leverage Chrome's extremely robust sandboxing to prevent front-end dependencies from accessing the file system, making network calls to untrusted domains, making system calls, calling 'eval', etc. A fully native app will offer you no such protection. If a dependency…

> Any project that uses dependencies (in any language) has the same issue.

While that's absolutely true, the Node ecosystem (which I use, love, and make my money in) definitely takes the sheer dependencies of dependencies of dependencies problem to a rather fascinating extreme, compared to nearly any other language I use.

Re: Tailscale raises $100M

#399
post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the open source implementation is equally good, I'm sure people will use that instead of Tailscale. That Tailscale exists makes me suspect that the open source implementation - as is usually the case with these "just use curlftpfs!" comments – is not equally good. The reality is that making software, like any other human endeavour, takes time and energy. Paying one another money is a rather well-established mechan…

It's the same argument as the famous Dropbox comment[0]. I'm generally going to prefer a polished service over a technical solution. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224

Haha, yup, that's what I was quoting in my comment ("just use curlftpfs!").

Re: Tailscale raises $100M

#400

Am I the only one that has an issue with a VPN that I can't self host? Presumably if Tailscale get's PWN'd or subpoenaed then your network is breached no?

Tailscale's data plane is [1] mostly p2p except for some cases where it doesn't work and it goes through an encrypted relay. So your data does not run through Tailscale servers. There is an oss [2]coordination server that does let you totally self-host. [1] https://tailscale.com/blog/how-nat-traversal-works/ [2] https://github.com/juanfont/headscale

If the tailscale control-plane is pwnd, outside of compromised ACLs (access controls) and DNS routes, I don't think it affects anything critical on the data-plane like passwords (because SSO) or private-keys since tailscale machine keys and node keys never leave the device: https://tailscale.com/blog/tailscale-key-management/
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