Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract • Hacker News Board

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#391

Post by Deivuh » Sat, Feb 05, 2022, 8:09 PM UTC

I still remember when they didn't even give me an option to cancel my subscription from the website (because of my location). Instead, I had to contact tech support and ask them to cancel my subscription. IIRC, the first time I tried, it was around 1AM, so no tech support, so I had to wait til the next day, but it was until a couple of days later that I actually did.

This is when I started to dislike Adobe. At least a very good competitor surfaced recently, Affinity, and they have a pretty good Photoshop and Illustrator alternative. I just wish that they would make a Lightroom alternative, which is not on their roadmap.

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#392

Post by cjbgkagh » Sat, Feb 05, 2022, 8:10 PM UTC

gkedzierski wrote: post #331

Spooky23 wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren’t evil, it’s just when companies move to subscription they turn into mini insurance companies focused on the spreadsheets. They model out your lifetime value and know that every $1 they chisel out of you is worth $1.40 in 5 years. They are brutal in the enterprise space, looking for 10-15% price escalations. They also turn over sales leadership so if you are big enough you can pull stunts for concessions. J…

> They model out your lifetime value and know that every $1 they chisel out of you is worth $1.40 in 5 years. Even more. Every $1 in MRR is worth around $216 in company market cap. (assuming their current multiple)

The CEO can also claim credit for the stock price increase and get his bonus. Fixing it would reverse the effect and put the bonus at risk. So not only will such ‘small evils’ become intrenched there is also a powerful insensitive to find even more of them.

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#393

Post by the__alchemist » Sat, Feb 05, 2022, 8:10 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #264

dymk wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CC chargeback time

Chargebacks aren't the magic spell people think they are. The credit card company may elect to side with the merchant, or the merchant may decline to do business with you again in the future (not ideal if your income relies on access to these tools in the future), or the merchant may take legal action against you, or the credit card company may decide to close your card account. You can't just do whatever you want an…

I've never had Amex side with the merchant.

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#394

Post by andi999 » Sat, Feb 05, 2022, 8:15 PM UTC

dheera wrote: post #341

chongli wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point I intend to avoid Adobe's services for the rest of my life. If I ever feel like I need Photoshop or Illustrator I'll find an alternative. There are a lot alternatives to these, both open source and proprietary from small businesses.

I use Linux but I'm mostly content with Gimp and Inkscape. I know Photoshop have some "content aware fill" and things but that's just their re-branded name for neural networks that are already open source, it's just a matter of time before it's available in Gimp. I might even consider writing those plugins too but my time is limited.

I thought the big problem is that gimp uses only rgb color encoding, which is fine for non-print, but if you want to print something professionally you need at least cmyk.

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#395

Post by unfocussed_mike » Sat, Feb 05, 2022, 8:15 PM UTC

ihateolives wrote: post #148

laumars wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t see Adobe going to those lengths because they’d know there is a good change they would lose any class action lawsuit that would come about. Which would not just cost them in damages but also in bad publicity plus likely get them ordered to remove the dark patterns too (thus removing any future revenue this dark otters generates). I’m not as clued up on consumer laws as I once was but I’m pretty sure in Europe…

> Which would not just cost them in damages but also in bad publicity Unfortunately I think Adobe is beyond the point where few months of bad publicity would harm their core business. Amateurs would vote with their feet but professionals have really nowhere to go. There just are no alternatives to some of their programs.

Which products do you feel truly have no alternatives, and which features define that for you?

The only one I can think of is After Effects, which appears to do a broader set of things than any other single package (but I could be wrong).

The rest, well I am not convinced, though there are some edge features in each package that undeniably would sell them to a few people, and that is, I guess, in the right way of things.

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#396

Post by josephcsible » Sat, Feb 05, 2022, 8:16 PM UTC

bambax wrote: post #241

sibit wrote: post #58

For anyone stuck in this dark pattern here is a trick I've used in the past: Adobe won't let you cancel without paying the remainder of your subscription fee however you can switch to a different plan. As soon as you switch you'll have the ability to cancel your "new" plan within 14 days. If you cancel after 14 days they'll charge you the early termination fee.

Or you can just block the recurring payments and wait for them to come at you? Anyway a "free" trial that asks for your cc number is obviously not free. Better to stay away of those to be on the safe side.

> Anyway a "free" trial that asks for your cc number is obviously not free.

There is a legitimate reason to do that: to keep people from making a bunch of accounts and getting free trials with them forever.

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#397

Post by unfocussed_mike » Sat, Feb 05, 2022, 8:16 PM UTC

danaris wrote: post #247

laumars wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t see Adobe going to those lengths because they’d know there is a good change they would lose any class action lawsuit that would come about. Which would not just cost them in damages but also in bad publicity plus likely get them ordered to remove the dark patterns too (thus removing any future revenue this dark otters generates). I’m not as clued up on consumer laws as I once was but I’m pretty sure in Europe…

> any future revenue this dark otters generates ...I'm sorry; I know this is a typo/autocucumber, but now I can't help picturing these nefarious Adobe otters coming up with ways to scam us. Adorable yet evil!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-59592355

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#398

Post by jhawk28 » Sat, Feb 05, 2022, 8:17 PM UTC

I ran into this the first time I tried out the new Lightroom plan. The customer support rep waived the fee for me. I then used LR6 until I upgraded to an M1 Mac Mini where I was forced to upgrade. I don't think these subscription models provide good incentives for software companies. I don't see LRCC has much better than LR6. It has a few more features (that I've never used), more camera support (haven't upgraded), and a recompile to ARM64.

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#399

Post by gregdoesit » Sat, Feb 05, 2022, 8:18 PM UTC

I'm someone who tends to double check terms before I sign up for any recurring billing... and somehow Adobe still got me with this exact dark pattern. I thought I was paying for a monthly subscription, only to be told I need to pay 50% of the remaining annual charge AND lose access immediately if I cancel.

I was convinced I signed up for what was a monthly plan... and somehow Adobe hid the fact that this was an annual plan, paid monthly (WTF??)

This level of a dark pattern made me move away from all Adobe products. Congrats on the additional revenue per user: it's also a sure way to have churned users like me not return.

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#400

Post by yoyopa » Sat, Feb 05, 2022, 8:19 PM UTC

as a subscriber to CC, i was thinking of canceling after reading this... but it seems it isn't a dark pattern at all? they advertise two rates: one if you pay month-by-month, and one if you pay for a 12-month term, billed monthly. An early termination fee is common if a contract is ended early, no?