Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I just don’t want to be busy anymore

elenasalaks.medium.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

391–400 of 463 posts

Re: I just don’t want to be busy anymore

#391

Post by docmars »

fzzzy wrote: post #361
paulluuk wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I did learn though, is that if you spot a problem and then report it to the relevant stakeholder, along with a plan for how you think it could be resolved, that's a really easy way to work yourself up in a large organisation. You have to work the politics, not just the code.

No, that's an easy way to get fired.

Why so? Delegation is a valuable skill, especially for those seeking a position in leadership.

It does matter how it's conveyed though - it can be interpreted as "not my problem" in certain cultures where people wear too many hats.

One of my workplaces has its engineers overwhelmed with too many responsibilities, like expecting front-end engineers to be wearing the DevOps hat any time a fire comes up related to their own staging environment.

I have found it's a matter of finding comfort in being assertive (and well aware) of the best and worst skills I have to offer in a realistic sense. If I'm particularly weak at a skill and I have little time to build it or refer to deep heady documentation, I ask a colleague who is capable to join me in looking, and they often find the problem within a few minutes, resulting in far less time wasted for all.

Re: I just don’t want to be busy anymore

#392

Post by snowwrestler »

berdon wrote: post #364
snowwrestler wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t need studies, I have a number of friends and family who are doctors and nurses. You completely missed my point, which is that it is ridiculous for tech companies to compare themselves to a profession that faces literally life and death situations. Comparing to “the past year” (i.e. a historic global pandemic) just highlights the absurdity. Your OKRs are not COVID patients!

My wife is a nurse at a huge national hospital. You're very wrong. 12 hours shifts turn into 13-14 hour shifts. They're so short staffed right now they're offering double pay + cash lump sums that equate it to triple/quadruple pay. But they pay lower than clinics and other hospitals in the area. They don't turn away patients.

You’re not reading what I’m writing. The fact that you know how long your wife’s shift is supposed to be is my point. The fact that nurses are being paid extra money for extra time is my point.

Engineers in Silicon Valley don’t clock in for a 12 hour shift. They are put on salary and any discussion of schedule is discouraged in favor of talking about “hustle” and “team players.”[1]

My point is not “health care workers don’t work hard.” My point is that they are set up with schedules and structure, which tech companies avoid… and then try to point at health care workers or “contractors” to justify the chaos.

Also I bet your wife is not working so hard just so the hospital can meet its financial goals. If she is like most nurses she is motivated by patient care and probably hates the administration, who are usually seen as bean counters who (if anything) impede care. Again, compare to tech companies who build myths around founders and corporate missions to obscure the purely financial stakes of their work.

[1] I know that not all companies operate this way, not all managers do this, not all engineers experience this. But there is obviously some sort of shared experience among a lot of people that the blog post at the top of the main thread is tapping into.

Re: I just don’t want to be busy anymore

#393

Post by WJW »

Godel_unicode wrote: post #278
henrikschroder wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's almost heretical. But once you embrace this mindset, it does wonders. Or at least, it has for me so far. The only reward for a job well done is more work. The quicker you realize that, the happier you'll be.

I feel genuinely sad for people who believe this. As someone who is extremely critical of my own work, the feeling of walking home knowing I really did something well is so awesome.

A job well done can be its own reward, that is true. Just be careful that the satisfaction does not turn into the main reward, because your management also knows that you derive significant value from the satisfaction and will attempt to save on raises/promotions/etc since you are apparently already happy enough even without those.

Re: I just don’t want to be busy anymore

#394

Post by Kunix »

5350-uiop-1130 wrote: post #298
sillysaurusx wrote: post #109

One thing that helped me is not to care so much about my employer's goals. It's almost heretical. But once you embrace this mindset, it does wonders. Or at least, it has for me so far. I think a lot of us want to be proud of the work we do, and we feel that if we slack off, then we shouldn't be proud. But it's the other way around. I think the slackers have it right. You're probably not going to get rich from working…

I totally agree. Don't be "pro-active" be "re-active" - is my way of putting it. Frankly, most orgs will not reward pro-activity, in fact you can even be punished for it, since if a problem is not yet known by stakeholders then why are you solving it. There have been times in my career where I spotted issues from other teams on preview or staging servers and helped to fix it. Then I later got blamed (or dragged into…

> Don't be "pro-active" be "re-active" - is my way of putting it.

As much as I recognize this can be good advice, this comment makes me sad.

It's like "start underperforming" is the answer given to bad management problems.

Which I agree actually makes sense in a lot of companies (if pro-active efforts are not already being recognized, then it's hard to change the culture).

I also think that a lot of comments here are directed toward financial success, but many people are actually looking for meaningful ways to contribute. People for which the "re-active" approach might not be a solution.

What would be the solution for those people? How unlikely is it to actually switch to a company which recognizes employees willing to be more involved?

Re: I just don’t want to be busy anymore

#395

Post by WJW »

Kiro wrote: post #273
EnlightenedBro wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, wondering when do you go to sleep if you wake up at 6? 9? That kind of sucks.

It's the most common time to wake up. I'm surprised that you've never had a job that required you to wake up at 6 or earlier. > Most common time people choose to wake up: 6:00 AM https://snoozester.com/The-Wake-Up-Time-Report.snooze > The peak time for waking up is between 6 and 6:30am. https://www.edisonresearch.com/wake-me-up-series-2/

The terms "choose to" and "peak time" would imply that those are the most favored times, but the very concept of jobs requires that people wake up at those times whether they want to or not. In fact, the big peak in average waking times in June (when many people have vacations) seems to indicate that most people will in fact wake up later when they do have the choice.

Re: I just don’t want to be busy anymore

#396

Post by geodel »

SubuSS wrote: post #362
sillysaurusx wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a balance. I think most people care too much about their employer's goals. The heresy is that you can't just say "Well, I don't care about my employer's goals," or else you'll be facing some negative reviews. The trick is to make it a mental shift. Here's a concrete example: Suppose you were coordinating with some large bank that takes a very long time to do anything. Should you feel bad that most of your day is…

Well, again from personal experience and what I have seen, going the extra mile exactly like you said (not to) is what enabled many to grow both professionally and financially. For many, that’s exactly what put them on the faster track to all that’s good. I know only a lucky few who got there by being there at the right time and coasting out. Most had to work it. I can really feel how it is easier to focus on those l…

Few months back an SVP type came for internal talk about journey and growth that led to their present position. So their matra was: looking for opportunities, mentoring, having great mentors, learning, proactive problem solving blah..blah.

Now this all seems reasonably true. Most important thing they missed to tell was joining industry/company at time of explosive growth in sector. If one is out with graduate degree in EEE field in late eighties or early nineties and joined a growing tech firm they undoubtedly ended up doing very well even if not an SVP or higher. To their credit was not to totally screw up things and not some great leadership lessons.

This story is not going to repeat for engineer joining in 2020s. There are no great green field projects coming, or customer negotiations happening for a low/mid-level engineers. Most of them will be put to churn out and integrate thousand little micro services and feel grateful that they still have job and health insurance.

Reflecting on myself who joined in mid 2000s all interesting work is now past and even after gaining lot of experience I ended being a JIRA slave and daily agile standup chump today. I can't imagine what an extra mile would be in this environment. I might, however, get fired if I tell a lot of work they are trying to efficiently should not be done at all in first place.

Re: I just don’t want to be busy anymore

#397

Post by lanstin »

mushbino wrote: post #263
pertymcpert wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What other reason is there for a career? A way to make a living doing what you love. I loved programming as a child/teenager. I wasn't paid then.

You also had someone providing for you and covering all of your costs. Once you leave the carefree comforts of childhood and join the rat race the rules change.

Ones motivation need not change. “Do what you love and the money will follow” is not universally true, but it is pretty damn true for learning and making software.

Re: I just don’t want to be busy anymore

#398

Post by lanstin »

jimbokun wrote: post #221
resonious wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like the premise here is that the only purpose for a career is to "get rich". I think a lot of people genuinely enjoy the work they do, and the relationships they have with their co-workers. Or, on the darker side of things, over-work themselves because they can't find anything engaging _outside of work_. For both of those groups of people, they might not actually enjoy getting…

The topic of the article is burn out, and if you are burnt out obviously you are no longer enjoying the work you do.

It is a lost easier to get burnt out if you are chasing success than if you are doing things you intrinsically want to do. I will over do it from time to time but the cure is rest. I don’t need to re-evaluate my goals or priorities for life.

Re: I just don’t want to be busy anymore

#399

Post by thewarrior »

falcor84 wrote: post #336
thewarrior wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this comment touches on something very deep. Spending time in online spaces seems to be profoundly damaging to our mental health. What exactly is it about online spaces that does this ? It’s little wonder that many are burning out after a year of being perpetually online. However I would also like to add that the amount of uncertainty in the world and in our jobs has gone up. You never really know if you’re d…

> You never really know if you’re doing “enough” I think you really hit the nail on the head here. We really do, almost all of us in this modern tech world, have an order of magnitude more leverage in our day-to-day activities than the previous generation did. We have a theoretical (though very uncertain) capability of making a marked difference to a chunk of the world (e.g. affecting thousands of people) by putting…

Although the way that people are evaluated in jobs is also open ended. So it cuts from both sides.

Re: I just don’t want to be busy anymore

#400

Post by lanstin »

lkschubert8 wrote: post #145
dreyfan wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This attitude works at random jobs where you’re replaceable, absolutely. However if you’re a meaningful part of an early team with equity, this is quite literally how you can indeed get rich.

Honest question, is there any evidence that the effort of the early engineering team of a startup has a strong relationship with a high value exit?

There is a lot of luck involved so I rather doubt it. If anything, it is necessary but not sufficient.
Post reply on HN