Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#391

Post by mdoms » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 6:11 PM UTC

Joeri wrote: post #364

makecheck wrote: post #316

The Mac App Store gives a hint at what would happen if there was any choice. The amount of software actually available for the Mac is far, far greater than what’s listed in the store. Furthermore, while some quality and notable apps are still in the Mac App Store, many well-known apps are not there. The number of lousy apps is also extremely high every time I go to search or just look at the front page, to the point…

Sometimes I try to imagine what the app store rules would look like if apple had to abide by those same rules for all of their own apps. I imagine the rules would be much more lenient, app review a lot less error prone, and developers would be chafed far less by those golden handcuffs. Pretty sure apple’s developer documentation would still be bad though.

I agree, Apple should be broken up.

Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#392

Post by EricE » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 6:14 PM UTC

Good. I once bought into the gatekeeping concept - except Apple hasn't followed through with their end of the bargain. Scam apps are still rampant - even dominating the recommended sections in the app store. Customer service is abysmal - if you do go for a refund it's a crap shoot as to if you will ever get a human response. When they kicked Parlor for purely political reasons - that was it. Time to force the gates open and let the market decide.

Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#393

Post by mdoms » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 6:16 PM UTC

dmitryminkovsky wrote: post #197

stirlo wrote: post #4

Finally. This is exactly how regulators should respond to the market abuse of these technology monopolies. If they wanted to head this off all they had to do was pay a reasonable amount of tax in the country where the revenue was generated and offer a reasonable (single percentage) fee for facilitating payments. They chose not to so they reap what they sow

I very much agree that this app stores market abuse thing needs to end, and I am also really glad to see that at least one country is responding like this. > a reasonable (single percentage) fee for facilitating payments. I want to point out, though, that the service Apple provides is not merely payment processing. They offer total customer management. Which, when integrated with their entire developer offering (Test…

> They offer total customer management.

No, they FORCE total customer management.

Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#394

Post by haswell » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 6:20 PM UTC

mdoms wrote: post #391

Joeri wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes I try to imagine what the app store rules would look like if apple had to abide by those same rules for all of their own apps. I imagine the rules would be much more lenient, app review a lot less error prone, and developers would be chafed far less by those golden handcuffs. Pretty sure apple’s developer documentation would still be bad though.

I agree, Apple should be broken up.

It's not necessary to break Apple up to implement a policy that requires Apple to apply the same process to their own apps.

There are other standalone arguments calling for a breakup, but agreeing with the parent doesn't automatically lead to the conclusion that a breakup is required.

Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#395

Post by FpUser » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 6:23 PM UTC

makecheck wrote: post #316

The Mac App Store gives a hint at what would happen if there was any choice. The amount of software actually available for the Mac is far, far greater than what’s listed in the store. Furthermore, while some quality and notable apps are still in the Mac App Store, many well-known apps are not there. The number of lousy apps is also extremely high every time I go to search or just look at the front page, to the point…

>"many well-known apps are not there"

Not Mac user but I guess it is the same as for Windows. I have some desktop products for Windows. The thought of releasing them to MS Store had never crossed my mind.

Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#396

Post by ipaddr » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 6:25 PM UTC

makecheck wrote: post #316

The Mac App Store gives a hint at what would happen if there was any choice. The amount of software actually available for the Mac is far, far greater than what’s listed in the store. Furthermore, while some quality and notable apps are still in the Mac App Store, many well-known apps are not there. The number of lousy apps is also extremely high every time I go to search or just look at the front page, to the point…

You want Apple to pick 100 big apps and promote them?

That would take away from the smaller person's chance.

That list grows stale and complaints over who is on the list starts.

Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#397

Post by ocdtrekkie » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 6:26 PM UTC

kryptiskt wrote: post #243

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason Apple and Google would never offer up a volume discount for large publishers without legal action is because it's 99% of the app store's revenue. Giving a discount to small developers cost them nothing, giving a discount to Epic Games and similar would cost them billions.

Google's Project Hug that was revealed in the Epic trial shows that they give discounts under the table. They just don't want it to be known publicly.

Project Hug is basically a bribe, rather than a discount: It's not offered to everyone. Just developers who are likely to strike out on their own. (EA and Activision both being companies who have bucked the Steam train before, demonstrating a willingness to launch outside of monopoly app platforms.)

Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#398

Post by idle_zealot » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 6:29 PM UTC

squeaky-clean wrote: post #333

noptd wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having to forward a link to family members every so often seems well worth it to me.

You either overestimate your family's tech literacy, or you have a household of people working in tech if you think it's as simple as reading a link for the average consumer.

> reading a link There’s nothing to read. Clicking the link immediately prompts the user to add the repository to their F-Droid installation.

Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#399

Post by arthurcolle » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 6:29 PM UTC

ipaddr wrote: post #396

makecheck wrote: post #316

The Mac App Store gives a hint at what would happen if there was any choice. The amount of software actually available for the Mac is far, far greater than what’s listed in the store. Furthermore, while some quality and notable apps are still in the Mac App Store, many well-known apps are not there. The number of lousy apps is also extremely high every time I go to search or just look at the front page, to the point…

You want Apple to pick 100 big apps and promote them? That would take away from the smaller person's chance. That list grows stale and complaints over who is on the list starts.

The arbitrary integer n = 100 is out of place, comparing your example with GP's comment. The commenter is totally right - the Mac App Store is just a gimmick in the same way that the iOS App Store is a total gimmick to accumulate fees from app developers. The fact that the review system is so broken is a pure indictment of the model itself.

Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#400

Post by giobox » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 6:30 PM UTC

ComputerGuru wrote: post #359

makecheck wrote: post #316

The Mac App Store gives a hint at what would happen if there was any choice. The amount of software actually available for the Mac is far, far greater than what’s listed in the store. Furthermore, while some quality and notable apps are still in the Mac App Store, many well-known apps are not there. The number of lousy apps is also extremely high every time I go to search or just look at the front page, to the point…

The Mac App Store came after there was a thriving ecosystem for Mac apps online/organically and without a middle man, and it provided close to zero value for developers on top of that. I don’t think it’s a fair comparison.

I think there is still value in the comparison, but you are absolutely correct. Any comparison must include this huge caveat - the Mac had a third party software ecosystem for over 20 years, well before OS X or a Mac App Store came along. There simply was far, far less historical incentive to adopt the macOS App Store than there was on iOS, which of course mandated the App Store from the beginning.

As a thought experiment: how many companies would leave the official iOS App Store if offered a choice tomorrow? Epic Im sure... but the experience on Android suggests to me not that many. As with Android, I think a lot will still want a presence on the default/"official" store regardless of the 30 percent take. Don't forget Apple have also done the hard part of getting a customer to enter their CC number to their iCloud account for their store, removing an enormous amount of friction in the sales process too.