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A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

outsideonline.com

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Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#391

Post by holdupnow »

acdha wrote: post #327
lurquer wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the system is susceptible to anti-vax propaganda thwarting approval of a good vaccine, doesn’t it also follow that the system is susceptible to big pharma lobbying for the approval of a bad vaccine? If this wondrously robust multi-layered process buckles in the face of a few hysterical anti-vax groups, you should ask yourself how robust it remains in the face of a billion-dollar pharmaceutical conglomerate with po…

I think you're confused on several points: the vaccine was approved following extensive safety tests but the lawsuits caused the manufacturer to decide it was not worth manufacturing. The U.S. regulators consistently found no connection between the vaccine and the complaints, so the _scientific_ side worked but the legal / business side let public safety down. Similarly, it's no secret that companies have a vested in…

Can you please cite these safety tests?

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#392

Post by acdha »

holdupnow wrote: post #391
acdha wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're confused on several points: the vaccine was approved following extensive safety tests but the lawsuits caused the manufacturer to decide it was not worth manufacturing. The U.S. regulators consistently found no connection between the vaccine and the complaints, so the _scientific_ side worked but the legal / business side let public safety down. Similarly, it's no secret that companies have a vested in…

Can you please cite these safety tests?

Like all vaccines, they were tested in animals and subsequently by human volunteers _before_ reaching the Phase III clinical trials. Those are double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled experiments which are generally considered the gold standard for medical testing which test cohorts of people who are exposed to the threat and compare both positive and negative outcomes across those populations without either the recipients or the experimenters knowing which people are in which group until afterwards.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X0...

> An adjuvanted recombinant vaccine (LYMErix™) has been approved in the United States for the prevention of Lyme disease in adults, and has demonstrated both safety and efficacy. A clinical trial of over 10 000 adults showed 76% efficacy following the third dose of a 0, 1, 12 schedule. Accelerated schedules demonstrate equivalent levels of protective antibody. Up to 100% of children 2–14 years of age achieve seroprotective levels of antibody. Booster doses induced protective levels of antibody in more than 96% of recipients when administered at months 12 and 24. Only mild or moderate, transient vaccine-associated adverse events have been reported after immunization. The vaccine is a safe and effective method of preventing Lyme disease.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2870557/

> The OspA vaccines proved effective in animal models and safe in human volunteers [18]. Both manufacturers conducted clinical trials in a race to gain the first license for their vaccine [19, 20]. In the LYMErix™ phase III safety and efficacy trial, researchers enrolled 10 906 subjects between 15 and 70 years old who lived in endemic areas and randomized them to receive either the three-dose Lyme vaccine regimen or placebo injections. Vaccinated individuals showed a 76% reduction in Lyme disease in the year following vaccination [20], with no significant side-effects noted. Based on these promising findings, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approved LYMErix™ on 21 December 1998.

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#393

Post by daddylongstroke »

pwenzel wrote: post #303
nomel wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered hyperbaric oxygen treatment? https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24726678/

I have not. Looks interesting. To be clear, I do not have chronic lyme, but rather have been bit by a tick twice in the last year and a half and got lyme disease each time.

You should play powerball with that type of luck!!! I pick embedded ticks off my body 6 out of 7 days each week, for about 3-4 months each year for many years, and have yet to face consequences...but then, I don't go to get medical attention often, so, who knows, maybe I've had it?

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#394

Post by coolgeek »

holdupnow wrote: post #391
acdha wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're confused on several points: the vaccine was approved following extensive safety tests but the lawsuits caused the manufacturer to decide it was not worth manufacturing. The U.S. regulators consistently found no connection between the vaccine and the complaints, so the _scientific_ side worked but the legal / business side let public safety down. Similarly, it's no secret that companies have a vested in…

Can you please cite these safety tests?

Apparently, you just created an account to challenge this comment.

Do you not understand the FDA approval process? Or do you not understand how to Google that question yourself? Or is it something else?

Seriously. What possessed you to create an account to challenge this comment without doing any research at all, yourself?

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#395

Post by daddylongstroke »

acdha wrote: post #250
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a difference between vaccine skeptic and anti-vax. Imagine if we didn't have people watching over our tech industry because that would be anti-tech, or our banking industry because that's anti-bank. No, we call them skeptics because we realize that's very different than someone who says "abolish tech and banks."

The thing is, we have that process at multiple levels from peer-review and the many stages of government approval and it's rigorous to the point that people have questioned whether it's causing problems due to delays and costs preventing development of vaccines for less widespread diseases and increasing costs. COVID-19 has provided a great example of how well this process works: even the emergency use authorizations…

There is no requirement to post reactions to VAERS; it's completely voluntary.

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#396

Post by daddylongstroke »

wildmanx wrote: post #330
abfan1127 wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The process has its flaws. Poorly designed drugs make it through the FDA process. Blind following is foolish. Skepticism is healthy. I don't get software updates as soon as available because, even with the testing, peer reviews, flaws still happen. Further, there were big political and financial reasons to push the vaccines through. Those are all conflicts of interest. Pfizer had millions of doses manufactured before…

You are welcome to be skeptical. But in the meantime, don't cause me to not be able to get a potentially life-saving drug. You may think it's a money grab or not tested enough or a conspiracy or a conflict of interest. Fine, don't take it. But I still want it. 1.4 million with ridiculously small number of question mark cases are good enough for me. They don't have to be for you. But let me have it. I pay for it.

I don't think any skeptics caused you to not be able to get a potentially life-saving drug. If they have, please show examples. Lyme disease is not life threatening. GSK didn't go through with distribution because it didn't make business sense.

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#397

Post by daddylongstroke »

coolgeek wrote: post #394
holdupnow wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you please cite these safety tests?

Apparently, you just created an account to challenge this comment. Do you not understand the FDA approval process? Or do you not understand how to Google that question yourself? Or is it something else? Seriously. What possessed you to create an account to challenge this comment without doing any research at all, yourself?

>Do you not understand the FDA approval process?

There are industrial-grade chemicals fully FDA approved for ingestion by the US populace which are outright banned by various European countries.

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#398

Post by daddylongstroke »

all_usernames wrote: post #368
ptmcc wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's in the ballpark of pretty much every effective vaccine ever deployed. They are never 100%. This misconception seems to have gotten prevalent with COVID and the mRNA vaccines being "only" 90-95% effective. That is staggeringly good, better than most.

> mRNA vaccines being "only" 90-95% effective Against alpha...

...and only if you're relatively healthy already, not obese, no history of blood clots or heart conditions, and are consistently getting between 6-8 hours of sleep two weeks before and after getting your vaccines.

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#399

Post by daddylongstroke »

Talanes wrote: post #356
im3w1l wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would still have to monitor for ticks and if symptoms appear (more rare) you would treat it with antibiotics and be fine. This is a minor benefit.

>You would still have to monitor for ticks This part is true no matter how effective the vaccine is. Ticks are gross, diseased or not.

Ticks are insects, not gross. They're just animals looking to eat, just like you and I.

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#400

Post by daddylongstroke »

_huayra_ wrote: post #351
wildmanx wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, thank you. I've learned what science is. It's pretty cool, you should look it up.

Do you think I'm anti-science? Hopefully the sarcasm of the parent comment was not lost on you. I wish Lymerix was available because I no longer want to have to hike or bike in the great outdoors head to toe in clothing design to avoid tick intrusion, much less worry that I was bitten on an exposed part of my skin. Now I'll just have to do it because my skin is designed to be a solar panel for vitamin D production in…

>I wish Lymerix was available because I no longer want to have to hike or bike in the great outdoors head to toe in clothing design to avoid tick intrusion,

Unless you're in the 5% of the population that's genetically predisposed to poor health outcomes from Lyme disease, I would not worry. Even if you are, I certainly would not worry to the effect of covering yourself from head to toe on a nature hike. The stress from your worry, is likely causing the type of inflammation that would prohibit your body's natural immune system from attacking a pathogenic bacterium.

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